Discussion on western involvement in the middle east (split from Salisbury thread)

[hambone]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

Give me strength. 

I prefer the initials ***!  Have the defenders of the angelic Russian's forgotten the atrocities they committed in Afghanistan? Why would Russian leopard have changed its spots? Cue the reply of western/American atrocities and how nasty the yanks were in Vietnam.   

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, hambone said:

I prefer the initials ***!  Have the defenders of the angelic Russian's forgotten the atrocities they committed in Afghanistan? Why would Russian leopard have changed its spots? Cue the reply of western/American atrocities and how nasty the yanks were in Vietnam.   

Dont need to , youve just done it 🙂

[hambone]

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

Dont need to , youve just done it 🙂

Nice reply 👍 totally failing to comment on Russian atrocities but still 10 out of 10 for promptness 😂 

[KB1]

23 hours ago, Retsdon said:

Our experiences differ then. I worked in Kuwait for a while. The kids riding the buses were a pest, but I never witnessed anything like you describe. Been in Saudi for more than a decade now and I have to say that generally I've found the Saudis to be OK. Less arrogant than the Kuwaitis and with a better sense of humour. I gather that travelling alone in parts of Qassim  - you're talking the heart of Wahhabi Bedu country - can be a bit hairy if you don't speak the language, but never having been I couldn't say. And by spme accounts you can meed hostility in hick towns like Hafr Al Batin as well. But for my own part I've never felt the least bit threatened in Saudi, in fact quite the opposite.  On a few occasions I've had Saudis actually get in their cars and have me follow them to show me a location or route when I've got lost and asked for directions. And if you've got kids with you they'll invariably stop their cars and let you cross a road in a shopping mall or wherever, even when there's no real need. Other than the parking and the driving, I've also found them to be very polite. Dunno...

I'm not denying your experiences, but I think it would be unfair for everyone in the Middle East to be judged by them because from what I know from my own and other western colleagues, what you described is not typical. Were you with the military - because they're a whole different breed?

In Kuwait I  was ********* engineer on the 1st phase of Az Zour North power plant and therefore on the border of Saudi.  Whilst I could cite plenty of good experiences and a number of pleasant people, it was the adverse (To our culture) incidents, and the sheer volume of them that stayed with me.  The site itself was quite large, and if I rember correctly had a workforce in excess of 4000.  The main management were primarily Kuwaiti and Western, with middle management and engineers being a mix of Western, Lebanese and Egyptian people.  The workforce was dominated by Egyptian, Indian and Pakistani workers (Being the cheapest labour) and other Arab nationalities (In smaller numbers).

First and foremost, I wasn't really welcome there by the upper eschalon, as they have a chip on their shoulder about needing Western expertise.  My first introduction to Kuwait was staying at a hotel in Fahaheel and switching on the TV to see a number of channels preaching 'Death to the Infadel' (With English sub titles), and seeing Kuwaiti kids smashing Coke bottles in the road, or dropping left over food packaging just to see the Pakistani or Indian cleaners sweep it up behind them.

I later got an apartment in Mangaf, and employed a maid, who daren't go out on her own for the (real) fear of being abducted and raped.

I had Egyptian and Lebanese engineer friends that I would socialise with, who would openly tell me that they would slit their own daughters throat if they became aware of her having sex before marriage, and that I, the Infadel would indeed 'burn in hell'.... despite being a 'nice guy'🙄

My first day on Az Zour, as I was touring the layout of the site I was greeted with a foul smell coming from behind some storage sheds, and on enquiring I was informed that this was where the Pakistani workers were going to the toilet, and that "Some were too lazy to cover it up".......... These guys had to do their business in the sand because they were'nt seen as fit to share/use the 'normal' persons toilets!  The Arab's in charge could not understand my show of disgrace at this situation, and I had to threaten walking out, in order to have toilets built for these workers.   

I promise you, I could go on and on citing horific instances of barbaric activities, but what stands out most for me, is the Arab intolerance to each others ethnicity, and the outright disrespect shown to other Asian ethnicities, including the ones I've mentioned previously.

[pinfireman]

In an extraordinary interview with Russia Today, the two Russian Skripal case suspects claim to have travelled to Salisbury to see the Cathedral’s “famous for its 123 Metre Spire” which is “famous throughout the whole world.”

They claim that their “friends had been telling us for some time we should visit this wonderful town.”

Does Jeremy Corbyn still stand by his claim that Russia Today is “more objective”than most other TV stations?

 This is for the tin hat brigade!

[12gauge82]

 Deleted

Edited September 13, 2018 by 12gauge82
Wrong thread

[Mungler]

7 hours ago, pinfireman said:

In an extraordinary interview with Russia Today, the two Russian Skripal case suspects claim to have travelled to Salisbury to see the Cathedral’s “famous for its 123 Metre Spire” which is “famous throughout the whole world.”

They claim that their “friends had been telling us for some time we should visit this wonderful town.”

Does Jeremy Corbyn still stand by his claim that Russia Today is “more objective”than most other TV stations?

 This is for the tin hat brigade!

 

Quite 😝

[Retsdon]

On 12/09/2018 at 23:49, KB1 said:

In Kuwait I  was ********* engineer on the 1st phase of Az Zour North power plant and therefore on the border of Saudi.  Whilst I could cite plenty of good experiences and a number of pleasant people, it was the adverse (To our culture) incidents, and the sheer volume of them that stayed with me.  The site itself was quite large, and if I rember correctly had a workforce in excess of 4000.  The main management were primarily Kuwaiti and Western, with middle management and engineers being a mix of Western, Lebanese and Egyptian people.  The workforce was dominated by Egyptian, Indian and Pakistani workers (Being the cheapest labour) and other Arab nationalities (In smaller numbers).

First and foremost, I wasn't really welcome there by the upper eschalon, as they have a chip on their shoulder about needing Western expertise.  My first introduction to Kuwait was staying at a hotel in Fahaheel and switching on the TV to see a number of channels preaching 'Death to the Infadel' (With English sub titles), and seeing Kuwaiti kids smashing Coke bottles in the road, or dropping left over food packaging just to see the Pakistani or Indian cleaners sweep it up behind them.

I later got an apartment in Mangaf, and employed a maid, who daren't go out on her own for the (real) fear of being abducted and raped.

I had Egyptian and Lebanese engineer friends that I would socialise with, who would openly tell me that they would slit their own daughters throat if they became aware of her having sex before marriage, and that I, the Infadel would indeed 'burn in hell'.... despite being a 'nice guy'🙄

My first day on Az Zour, as I was touring the layout of the site I was greeted with a foul smell coming from behind some storage sheds, and on enquiring I was informed that this was where the Pakistani workers were going to the toilet, and that "Some were too lazy to cover it up".......... These guys had to do their business in the sand because they were'nt seen as fit to share/use the 'normal' persons toilets!  The Arab's in charge could not understand my show of disgrace at this situation, and I had to threaten walking out, in order to have toilets built for these workers.   

I promise you, I could go on and on citing horific instances of barbaric activities, but what stands out most for me, is the Arab intolerance to each others ethnicity, and the outright disrespect shown to other Asian ethnicities, including the ones I've mentioned previously.

Thanks for the in depth reply. Interesting and not in the least surprising really. But the thing is, the attitudes that you describe are not specifically Arab. In my experience the whole  Indian subcontinent is on a par when it comes to sheer lack of compassion for ones' fellow man. You could pretty much add nearly the whole African continent too. The only difference is that they don't have the money the Gulf Arabs do to import the labour to lord it over.. And be honest that's what I find so irritating about these people who are all for opening the door of Europe to culturally alien immigrants, and decrying opposition voices as racist and backward. They're dangerously naive if they think attitudes and beliefs forged over a thousand or more years will be altered by a bit of do gooder encouragement and matronly hectoring.

On the other hand, while 'in country' I just take people on an individual basis. On the broader canvas it's their culture and they can live how they like. Who am I to be constantly passing judgement? Their culture isn't mine, and long may that separation continue.

Interesting conversation. Thanks.

[Yellow Bear]

2 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

On the broader canvas it's their culture and they can live how they like. Who am I to be constantly passing judgement? Their culture isn't mine, and long may that separation continue.

Try telling this to the "perpetually offended" in this country who insist we must not offend minorities and must change ourselves.

[Retsdon]

11 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

Try telling this to the "perpetually offended" in this country who insist we must not offend minorities and must change ourselves.

Yes well, that's another pet bugbear of mine. I've worked for at least 20 years in different foreign countries and cultures and none of them were worried in the least if I was offended by anything.  And why on Earth should they be? If I didn't want to be there I could have stayed at home.

When the natives must accommodate the incomers you're beginning the shift from immigration to colonization.

Edited September 15, 2018 by Retsdon

[Yellow Bear]

27 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Yes well, that's another pet bugbear of mine. I've worked for at least 20 years in different foreign countries and cultures and none of them were worried in the least if I was offended by anything.  And why on Earth should they be? If I didn't want to be there I could have stayed at home.

When the natives must accommodate the incomers you're beginning the shift from immigration to colonization.

For once something we can agree on

[Retsdon]

3 hours ago, Yellow Bear said:

For once something we can agree on

That's good. I like to agree with people.

 

[KB1]

On 15/09/2018 at 13:57, Retsdon said:

And be honest that's what I find so irritating about these people who are all for opening the door of Europe to culturally alien immigrants, and decrying opposition voices as racist and backward. They're dangerously naive if they think attitudes and beliefs forged over a thousand or more years will be altered by a bit of do gooder encouragement and matronly hectoring.

So very true.......