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Jaymo

Semi auto sec 1 and Pigeon

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There is some ambiguity within the GL for woodies from what I can see when it comes to using a semi with a greater than 2+1 capacity.

Whats the deal please? 

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I don't see a problem using a  FAC semi-auto. I can't see it written anywhere that it may be an issue.

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44 minutes ago, toontastic said:

I don't see a problem using a  FAC semi-auto. I can't see it written anywhere that it may be an issue.

Have a look at the Definitions on Page 4 of GL 36 and in particular; "which is not prohibited by Section 5 of the Firearms Act 1968 and which has a magazine capable of holding more than 2 rounds.......". Personally speaking, I don't take that to mean that you must use a gun which can hold more than 2 in the mag, so the alternative is not having such a mag - in common with the "not" from "not being prohibited". You pays your money and takes...............

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Posted (edited)

I've read it again and stick by my initial interpretation of the wording. It says you can use a shotgun not prohibited by section 5. So as neither section 1 or section 3 shotguns are prohibited by section 5 then IMHO they are ok for use when operating under GL36

Edited by toontastic

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34 minutes ago, toontastic said:

I've read it again and stick by my initial interpretation of the wording. It says you can use a shotgun not prohibited by section 5. So as neither section 1 or section 3 shotguns are prohibited by section 5 then IMHO they are ok for use when operating under GL36

Here you go. Had a look at the "Definitions" in the old GL04. The wording in the Lawful Methods is the same as the new GL36, but the wording in the "Definitions" is much clearer in the 04:

"automatic weapon” and “semi-automatic weapon” do not include any weapon the magazine of which is incapable of holding more than two rounds;"

As a Government Dept., you'd have thought that a prerequisite for a job in Defra, some form of qualification in written English was reasonably high on the list.

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If you can't use a FAC semi automatic then how come loads are on fac for pigeon shooting.

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13 minutes ago, toontastic said:

If you can't use a FAC semi automatic then how come loads are on fac for pigeon shooting.

Oops, there was me pointing out that I think you were correct - see the edit on my last post - it's all those double negatives that are confusing.

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17 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Here you go. Had a look at the "Definitions" in the old GL04. The wording in the Lawful Methods is the same as the new GL36, but the wording in the "Definitions" is much clearer in the 04:

"automatic weapon” and “semi-automatic weapon” do not include any weapon the magazine of which is incapable of holding more than two rounds;"

As a Government Dept., you'd have thought that a prerequisite for a job in Defra, some form of qualification in written English was reasonably high on the list.

Partially correct, a semi auto is not lawful under the act for shooting birds. But operating under the GL gives an exemption.

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3 minutes ago, toontastic said:

Partially correct, a semi auto is not lawful under the act for shooting birds. But operating under the GL gives an exemption.

I thought we were only discussing the GL.

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4 minutes ago, wymberley said:

I thought we were only discussing the GL.

We are, you've said using semi autos is a no no and I say it's yes yes. I was just pointing that it clearly says you can use an unlawful gun as long as it's not a prohibited gun under section 5

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1 minute ago, toontastic said:

We are, you've said using semi autos is a no no and I say it's yes yes. I was just pointing that it clearly says you can use an unlawful gun as long as it's not a prohibited gun under section 5

Yep, I expressed a degree of uncertainty about using a larger mag capacity when shooting under the term of the GL, but did not say that the self loader was an outright no no and which was the OP's original point. Perserverence reflects (I'm pleased to say) that I was indeed wrong and that your interpretation was the correct one.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

Blimey gents - still confused 🙂

Basically it's unlawful to shoot pigeons with a semi auto, the wildlife act prohibits it. However within the GL there is a clause allowing semi autos to shoot pigeons ( it's only valid as long as you are shooting within the conditions of the GL)

It doesn't just apply to pigeons it also applies to any birds shot under the terms of the GL

Edited by toontastic

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a S1 FAC shotgun is not a S5 (prohibited) weapon.

mine is on my FAC for pest control.

If you are concerned email your FEO for the answer in writing.

f.

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31 minutes ago, toontastic said:

Basically it's unlawful to shoot pigeons with a semi auto, the wildlife act prohibits it. However within the GL there is a clause allowing semi autos to shoot pigeons ( it's only valid as long as you are shooting within the conditions of the GL)

It doesn't just apply to pigeons it also applies to any birds shot under the terms of the GL

Do you mean any semi auto or a S1 semi auto? Mine was conditioned to shoot birds and pest species in accordance with the Countryside and Wildlife Act, as is my S1 pump currently. 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Scully said:

Do you mean any semi auto or a S1 semi auto? Mine was conditioned to shoot birds and pest species in accordance with the Countryside and Wildlife Act, as is my S1 pump currently. 

It's basically unlawful to use a semi auto to shoot any birds (as all birds are protected) however it is lawful to shoot pest birds under said act as long as they are shot under the terms of the GL. It's a bit confusing as it tells you that you can use lawful methods, then it tells you the unlawful methods and then finally it tells you that you can use the unlawful methods as they are after all lawful as long as you shoot using the terms of the GL.

Edited by toontastic

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3 minutes ago, Scully said:

Do you mean any semi auto or a S1 semi auto? Mine was conditioned to shoot birds and pest species in accordance with the Countryside and Wildlife Act, as is my S1 pump currently. 

It is easy to see why we can get confused. Forget the Firearms act of '68. The Wildlife and Countryside Act of '81 makes it an offence to kill or take any wild bird with an automatic or semi-automatic (I think they meant self-loading) weapon. They then define this semi automated thingy as; "any weapon whose magazine is capable of holding more than two rounds of ammunition. Consequently, a restricted 2 round mag is not deemed to be a semi-auto thingy. All academic now, of course as explained above.

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28 minutes ago, Fuddster said:

a S1 FAC shotgun is not a S5 (prohibited) weapon.

mine is on my FAC for pest control.

If you are concerned email your FEO for the answer in writing.

f.

Ah,  but my FEO will state what’s written on my Licence or as someone has mention “Wildlife and Countryside act” But is this over ruled by GL terms?

Both my Sec one pump and semi are authorised for Pigeon control.

 

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Yes you can use sec 1 shotguns under the general licence. 

No section 5 shotguns. You won't have a section 5 shotgun so don't worry (as you'd hold it under section 1)

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