Pattern test

[GingerCat]

I'd be interested to see 60 70 and 80 yard patterns. 

[Farmboy91]

Hopefully I'll have the additional choke by the end of the month then I'll look to do further tests. At 60 yards I will use pigeon extreme to as I quite like them.

[wymberley]

16 hours ago, Farmboy91 said:

No nothings being taken as negative, all comments welcomed as there's always room for improvement in future test. 

If I can get hold of a 3/4 choke I'm going to repeat it at 50 yards/150 of my paces then maybe again at about 70 yards. I've never been a massive fan myself of full choke and only used it in fixed choke guns.

Full marks for effort, but there's no denying that you could do a tad better with not too much effort. As you're now going to be looking at ranges well down on the 100ish yards it will be easier. A quick check of your patterns reflects that you only know where some sub 10% of the pellets from each cartridge actually went. Also, it looks as though you marked an aiming point and in effect (you didn't of course, but you will see where I'm coming from) called that the pattern centre, whereas you would mark an aim point and then view the result  to define where the centre actually is. This negates an off target shot giving a false result. The answer to both points is to use a bigger target such that you catch the vast majority of the load and also then determine its centre which in turn will permit you to give a definitive pattern density - at least it will for the shorter ranges where the pellet spread can be called a pattern.

[old'un]

Think the only time I have ever pattern tested (if you can call it that) a cartridge was about 45 years ago when I shot at the side an old caravan.

[Walker570]

8 minutes ago, old'un said:

Think the only time I have ever pattern tested (if you can call it that) a cartridge was about 45 years ago when I shot at the side an old caravan.

I never did it until I went over to a 410 and just wanted to see how my reloads performed with different chokings. Worth doing and now I shoot full and full which throw a 95% pattern in a 30 inch circle at 35yrds.  BUT of course this doesn't mean another shotgun will do the same or another shooters home loads.  Certainly with a 410 there seems to be a lot of variance between guns and loads.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Walker570

[Farmboy91]

I'm somewhat limited on the size I can make the pattern plate, but with the next set I'll do I don't think it will matter as much. 

Thanks for the advice though 👍

[old'un]

23 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

I never did it until I went over to a 410 and just wanted to see how my reloads performed with different chokings. Worth doing and now I shoot full and full which throw a 95% pattern in a 30 inch circle at 35yrds.  BUT of course this doesn't mean another shotgun will do the same or another shooters home loads.  Certainly with a 410 there seems to be a lot of variance between guns and loads.

I gave up trying to find the perfect choke, cartridge (12g) combination years ago, when I was a lot younger my killing cartridge was 32g 6s and nothing lighter.

Now its 1oz of 6s or 7.5s put through ½ and full choke they kill just the same and are more pleasant to shoot, personally I think chokes have been over analysed.

I can perhaps see the need to understand your pattern when home loading cartridges and especially using small gauge guns like a 410.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Personally speaking, looking at a cartridge/choke pattern is very enlightening, it allows you to understand as much as possible about what is going on from trigger pull to kill/break.

 

These days there are very few truly awful cartridges, 25 years ago there were loads.

 

When a target that gets dusted in to oblivion it raises my game and allows me to shoot better scores and raise my average.

[Farmboy91]

I think the cheaper end of the scale does tell though, I find, and I know others rave about them but all the jocker carts to me kick, the 32g loads are horrid, whereas gamebore extreme pigeon to me are much softer shooting, despite being bigger. I try to avoid that cheaper end at all costs.

Had the same thing with some nsi carts I brought a few years ago. I could put anything through the ATA I had at the time and hardly feel it, the nsi 1oz 7 1/2's were punchy as they come.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Okay, I would suggest that a good gun fit may help with that.

[Farmboy91]

Or just not use cheap cartridges 😂 I don't have a problem with anything else.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 minute ago, Farmboy91 said:

Or just not use cheap cartridges 😂 I don't have a problem with anything else.

Probably the easiest solution all round.

[old'un]

Here’s one for the technical staff, if we take a 12g and 1oz of shot and full choke, in theory the shot column is narrower/longer than say cylinder choke (more open pattern) at the same range, the idea behind any choke is to restrict/make the shot column narrower/longer on leaving the muzzle, if that’s the case then why not just use a 20g with the same 1oz load, the shot column would automatically be narrower/longer due to the reduced bore size, or am I missing something?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

3 minutes ago, old'un said:

Here’s one for the technical staff, if we take a 12g and 1oz of shot and full choke, in theory the shot column is narrower/longer than say cylinder choke (more open pattern) at the same range, the idea behind any choke is to restrict/make the shot column narrower/longer on leaving the muzzle, if that’s the case then why not just use a 20g with the same 1oz load, the shot column would automatically be narrower/longer due to the reduced bore size, or am I missing something?

And for the weight of the gun, when you have finished shooting 100 rounds you would probably not want another go.

I used to regularly shoot 300 on a Sunday through my 12 Bore Berettas, horses for courses, right tool for the job!

[Old farrier]

6 minutes ago, old'un said:

Here’s one for the technical staff, if we take a 12g and 1oz of shot and full choke, in theory the shot column is narrower/longer than say cylinder choke (more open pattern) at the same range, the idea behind any choke is to restrict/make the shot column narrower/longer on leaving the muzzle, if that’s the case then why not just use a 20g with the same 1oz load, the shot column would automatically be narrower/longer due to the reduced bore size, or am I missing something?

The amount of powder in the cartridge 

[old'un]

5 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

And for the weight of the gun, when you have finished shooting 100 rounds you would probably not want another go.

I used to regularly shoot 300 on a Sunday through my 12 Bore Berettas, horses for courses, right tool for the job!

Adding weight to a 20g would not be a problem but that was not what I was getting at, it was more about range/pattern and the effects of chokes on that pattern/range/shot column.

3 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

The amount of powder in the cartridge 

same load as 12g

[TIGHTCHOKE]

A 20 bore will not shoot any further than a 12 gauge, whether it is heavier or not.

[Old farrier]

1 minute ago, old'un said:

Adding weight to a 20g would not be a problem but that was not what I was getting at, it was more about range/pattern and the effects of chokes on that pattern/range/shot column.

same load as 12g

I’ll check my data on the reloding and think on this 

I see where you are coming from and I’m sure there’s a scientific consensus for it 

although  one 20th of a pound should be the optimal load for a 20 bore and one 12th for the 12 

but you know that 😊👍

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 minute ago, Old farrier said:

I’ll check my data on the reloding and think on this 

I see where you are coming from and I’m sure there’s a scientific consensus for it 

although  one 20th of a pound should be the optimal load for a 20 bore and one 12th for the 12 

but you know that 😊👍

Optimal loads would surely be square.

[old'un]

7 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

A 20 bore will not shoot any further than a 12 gauge, whether it is heavier or not.

I am obviously not making myself clear, I am talking pattern not the striking energy of the pellets.

[Old farrier]

Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Optimal loads would surely be square.

Exactly so less powder in the 20 bore although I’m not sure on nitro powder 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

7 minutes ago, old'un said:

I am obviously not making myself clear, I am talking pattern not the striking energy of the pellets.

I am talking usable pattern, for the same size pellet and weight of payload and weight of propellant.

[wymberley]

19 hours ago, old'un said:

Here’s one for the technical staff, if we take a 12g and 1oz of shot and full choke, in theory the shot column is narrower/longer than say cylinder choke (more open pattern) at the same range, the idea behind any choke is to restrict/make the shot column narrower/longer on leaving the muzzle, if that’s the case then why not just use a 20g with the same 1oz load, the shot column would automatically be narrower/longer due to the reduced bore size, or am I missing something?

Unfortunately, it's not the case. The idea is to impart a converging force into the load which has the effect of retarding or delaying the rate of the inevitable divergence of the pellets. In so doing, this has the adverse effect that you describe and is one reason why the efficiency of choke is limited - often to a greater degree than we'd wish. With regard to the current usage of the term which is limited to just the load and not the original combination of load and charge, what has been said about a square load is valid.