Salmo Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 On 15/03/2020 at 21:37, motty said: One of the top pigeon shooters in the country has given them the thumbs up. What gun do you own? You will more than likely be fine with spicy steel. Wonder how many thousand they gave him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 8 hours ago, lancer425 said: Best move you could make. Only if for the foreseeable future of reloading you either make your own wads or pay £150 plus for the fibre cup wads to get biodegradable wads. None of the mainstream wad manufacture have any biodegradable wads underdevelopment despite years of looking at the issue, the cartridge manufactures will take all they can get of the water soluble wads so current demand will outstrip supply. hence why basc keep refusing to verify beyond doubt that the cartridge industry were consulted prior to the announcement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 1 hour ago, rbrowning2 said: Only if for the foreseeable future of reloading you either make your own wads or pay £150 plus for the fibre cup wads to get biodegradable wads. None of the mainstream wad manufacture have any biodegradable wads underdevelopment despite years of looking at the issue, the cartridge manufactures will take all they can get of the water soluble wads so current demand will outstrip supply. hence why basc keep refusing to verify beyond doubt that the cartridge industry were consulted prior to the announcement. Reloading has way more to offer than any monetary saving or short term bio wad supply line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardigun Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 Check the "Clay Game" website. They have a range of reloading stuff including "cardboard" shot cups for steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 18 hours ago, andrewluke said: would this be Geoff Garrod??,if not who is it? Anthony Poolman. I wouldn't class Geoff Garrod as one of the top pigeon shooters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 11 hours ago, Salmo said: Wonder how many thousand they gave him He probably did get given some. Doesn't mean his opinion should be disregarded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salmo Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 Mitty I’ve tried shooting geese over decoys with both lead and steel ( inland Scotland ) we also did a blind testing and with respect it was a wee while ago but the kills with lead are far superior ....... I do not have one single steel cartridge Sorry Motty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5x55SE Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Salmo said: Mitty I’ve tried shooting geese over decoys with both lead and steel ( inland Scotland ) we also did a blind testing and with respect it was a wee while ago but the kills with lead are far superior ....... I do not have one single steel cartridge Sorry Motty Change the record please. Tell you what this coming season free of charge my grandson and myself will give you a lesson in whether Steel shot kill's Geese cleanly flighted not decoyed using 32gram Steel 3's ( grandson with 12ga ) and I'll use heavy artillery 20ga 1oz Steel 3's . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Salmo said: Mitty I’ve tried shooting geese over decoys with both lead and steel ( inland Scotland ) we also did a blind testing and with respect it was a wee while ago but the kills with lead are far superior ....... I do not have one single steel cartridge Sorry Motty What do you mean by FAR SUPERIOR ? IN WHAT WAY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 52 minutes ago, lancer425 said: What do you mean by FAR SUPERIOR ? IN WHAT WAY? are you using steel for everything?,i cant see why not if you think steel is not inferior to lead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salmo Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 Far superior ...... range , stopping power , more stone dead kills . Last year when we played about experimenting lead came out on top every time . I’m doing a cull this year in September and I’ll try the same again ( this year the cull will be 4 days ) and I’ll let you know the results but I stand by what I say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salmo Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 1 hour ago, 6.5x55SE said: Change the record please. Tell you what this coming season free of charge my grandson and myself will give you a lesson in whether Steel shot kill's Geese cleanly flighted not decoyed using 32gram Steel 3's ( grandson with 12ga ) and I'll use heavy artillery 20ga 1oz Steel 3's . Aye tell you what if your that good I’ll get you up here with me to flight geese on my daughters farm and you publish the results here ...... I’ll even pay for your trip .... I flight them going to a small Loch and use a Benelli with Winchester super xx or power piston 2s ........... and you recon you can drop greylags at 45 / 50 yards with a 20 bore ......... I know I can ....... but then again what do I know I’ve only shot 3000 plus . Now I’ve said all I’m saying on the matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5x55SE Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, Salmo said: Aye tell you what if your that good I’ll get you up here with me to flight geese on my daughters farm and you publish the results here ...... I’ll even pay for your trip .... I flight them going to a small Loch and use a Benelli with Winchester super xx or power piston 2s ........... and you recon you can drop greylags at 45 / 50 yards with a 20 bore ......... I know I can ....... but then again what do I know I’ve only shot 3000 plus . Now I’ve said all I’m saying on the matter I'm definitely up for that and with it being videod for all to see. There's a few members on PW have seen what a 20ga and Steel does on Geese. As for stating your shot 3000 Geese it's not a Peeing contest but as your mentioned it way way behind myself but then to be fair i did for 11years cull Geese on Islay again using a 20ga admitted with lead in those days. Now just my advice/opinion if yourself and others are happy using whatever shot type size along with gun crack on be happy but please don't assume because you can't others can't or don't. A few years ago i had a similar healthy debate with a fellow Wildfowler . True to my word i took him on several flights where he saw plenty of Geese cleanly killed with steel from a 20ga. No matter what we use don't hit them right they don't come down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltings Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 two pellets in the head / neck beats ten in the backside don't matter what shot type or cost however if you home load steel you can tailor your load to what works for you its all about the pattern and hitting power every one has their opinion what works for them does not work for others some if it kicks like a mule it must be good lead or steel some spray and pray hope something falls our others one shot one kill not every one kills with lead every time and blame steel as no good initial setup a reloading press and scales for as cheap as you can find shot powder and wads the same if you kill consistently with a home load it will be worth it and be cheaper than shop bought loads less cripples and clean kills steel loaded right kills as all lead and non toxic if loaded right off the shelf steel found to be lacking others will disagree I load to kill consistently with all shot types the rest is down to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Saltings said: two pellets in the head / neck beats ten in the backside don't matter what shot type or cost however if you home load steel you can tailor your load to what works for you its all about the pattern and hitting power every one has their opinion what works for them does not work for others some if it kicks like a mule it must be good lead or steel some spray and pray hope something falls our others one shot one kill not every one kills with lead every time and blame steel as no good initial setup a reloading press and scales for as cheap as you can find shot powder and wads the same if you kill consistently with a home load it will be worth it and be cheaper than shop bought loads less cripples and clean kills steel loaded right kills as all lead and non toxic if loaded right off the shelf steel found to be lacking others will disagree I load to kill consistently with all shot types the rest is down to me how do you work that one out??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltings Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 Just now, andrewluke said: how do you work that one out??? over many years many hours at a duck pond and many many hours on the fore shore many hours shooting pigeons through the summer developing loads inc chatting to mates wildfowlers working efficient loads researching loads to Sami regs and continental data was discussed with off the shelf loads on the fore shore well within range on wigeon with my son and I shooting together picked up two out of twelve down still alive others not found frustrated to hell ( we both cant be wrong) a good dog who worked hard if shooting lead I can say dead next visit home loaded steel eleven for thirteen shots all within range and 25 yrs on still reloading and haven't bought a lead or steel cartridge to date and couldn't tell you the cost of a of a slab of clay busting shells if you shoot steel i can send you some for the season you can make your own mind up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 2 hours ago, andrewluke said: are you using steel for everything?,i cant see why not if you think steel is not inferior to lead! Steel in What. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Salmo said: Far superior ...... range , stopping power , more stone dead kills . Last year when we played about experimenting lead came out on top every time . I’m doing a cull this year in September and I’ll try the same again ( this year the cull will be 4 days ) and I’ll let you know the results but I stand by what I say I call BS on all that untill we know the Lead VS steel spacifics. What range ? What geese? Define more stone dead kills.? What loads? What Shot size? what gun/ choke? Lots of variables we need to know, and dead is dead you can not kill something deader than dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltings Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, lancer425 said: Steel in What. ? steel loaded properly will kill better than lead at distance as tighter pattern however off the shelf cip steel lacking reload now to develop a load for the coming season you wont be disappointed plenty of guys on here will give you data Edited March 17, 2020 by Saltings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Saltings said: steel loaded properly will kill better than lead at distance as tighter pattern however off the shelf cip steel lacking Agree but think you must agree can still get it working well enough, load dependent , as you will know. Some factory just falls flat on its face, but Lead loads were not all created equal either. Just a lack of knowledge i think with theese blokes, unless they are on a wind up mission. " Probable" .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltings Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, lancer425 said: Agree but think you must agree can still get it working well enough, load dependent , as you will know. Some factory just falls flat on its face, but Lead loads were not all created equal either. Just a lack of knowledge i think with theese blokes, unless they are on a wind up mission. " Probable" .. steel as lead has a sweet spot to use an annularly a carburettor too lean or too rich **** just right spot on steel the same lead the same however shop bought you cant choose home load you can develop any load to suit your needs fast or slow heavy or light your choice Sami data is the way forward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, Saltings said: steel as lead has a sweet spot to use an annularly a carburettor too lean or too rich **** just right spot on steel the same lead the same however shop bought you cant choose home load you can develop any load to suit your needs fast or slow heavy or light your choice Sami data is the way forward Agree and in the case of the ten, i apply my own ALOWANCE BASED ON IF I Am using a modern gun or not. Sami have to keep its pressures down for grandads old Lefever nitro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltings Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, lancer425 said: Agree and in the case of the ten, i apply my own ALOWANCE BASED ON IF I Am using a modern gun or not. Sami have to keep its pressures down for grandads old Lefever nitro. you and me will get on fine kill it not wound it don't matter what jacket it wears I see chips and peas / gravy around a pink or mallard we must have a breakfast at the Anglia motel on the A17 sometime a really decent fry-up breakfast and ill pay my treat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 9 hours ago, Saltings said: you and me will get on fine kill it not wound it don't matter what jacket it wears I see chips and peas / gravy around a pink or mallard we must have a breakfast at the Anglia motel on the A17 sometime a really decent fry-up breakfast and ill pay my treat Thats a certainty im up for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 12 hours ago, lancer425 said: Agree but think you must agree can still get it working well enough, load dependent , as you will know. Some factory just falls flat on its face, but Lead loads were not all created equal either. Just a lack of knowledge i think with theese blokes, unless they are on a wind up mission. " Probable" .. you seem to preach to others that steel is an alternative to lead but you also say that you will be reloading your steel cartridges,is it because you find that factory produced steel cartridges are not a substitute for factory produced lead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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