Working dog/pet

[Lloyd90]

1 hour ago, Old farrier said:

Definitely don’t have them in the house keep the kids and wife away never get a spaniel and definitely don’t have a cocker 

having ignored all of my advice enjoy your dog and your family can enjoy it also 

welcome to the madhouse 

Nothing wrong with family around it it just helps if you can do a few ground rules that don’t un do all the hours you spend training the dog 🤷‍♂️

[Old farrier]

6 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Nothing wrong with family around it it just helps if you can do a few ground rules that don’t un do all the hours you spend training the dog 🤷‍♂️

Don’t have any problem with family 

brothers got 15 or so assorted spaniel and labs 

rest of them know how to behave around the dogs 

and the dogs know 

[JDog]

Ground rules for children of that age around a young dog will be difficult to monitor.

That applies to some adults too. We had people round for lunch once and one guest insisted on throwing a ball for Jasper. Another was preparing for a game of tug of war with a soft retrieving aid until I stepped in.

[Lloyd90]

3 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Don’t have any problem with family 

brothers got 15 or so assorted spaniel and labs 

rest of them know how to behave around the dogs 

and the dogs know 

 

You have trained the family  ... harder than training rhe dog  ... still trying to train the Mrs ... she will give me a correction if she sees this though! 

[Old farrier]

15 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

You have trained the family  ... harder than training rhe dog  ... still trying to train the Mrs ... she will give me a correction if she sees this though! 

Its simple 

I ask them if they trained there kids there self? 
I then rest my case 

[12gauge82]

5 hours ago, JDog said:

Ground rules for children of that age around a young dog will be difficult to monitor.

That applies to some adults too. We had people round for lunch once and one guest insisted on throwing a ball for Jasper. Another was preparing for a game of tug of war with a soft retrieving aid until I stepped in.

You sound a right bundle of joy, get a grip!

To the op, Dogs ain't daft, if your half decent at training, your dog will soon learn the difference between being out with you and what's expected of it and it's home/family time.

Edited May 7, 2020 by 12gauge82

[Lloyd90]

52 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

You sound a right bundle of joy, get a grip!

To the op, Dogs ain't daft, if your half decent at training, your dog will soon learn the difference between being out with you and what's expected of it and it's home/family time.

Sorry but I agree with Jdog ... just look on the Facebook groups for gundog training... 

 

They're absolutely Crammed with people who have numerous problems, taking their dogs for walks and the dog just goes off, then they’re saying how the dog just disappears off out of range when taken hunting. 
 

People who can’t get their dogs to retrieve, or won’t deliver to them. People who can’t even get the dogs to pick things up ... and people who can’t stop their dogs running in and chasing... 

 

If the dog can so easily learn the difference between being allowed to do all these things then why are all these people having such problem? 
 

 

 

Dogs are good at learning things in different contexts, BUT... it is BY FAR  easier to train without bad habits and problems being instilled in the first place... than letting all those issues develop and then trying to fix them later. 
 

That’s why they say with young dogs put them in situations where they always succeed if you can ... and don’t put them in situations where they will obviously go wrong... because it’s far easier to avoid a problem than spend months trying to fix it! 

[12gauge82]

7 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

Sorry but I agree with Jdog ... just look on the Facebook groups for gundog training... 

 

They're absolutely Crammed with people who have numerous problems, taking their dogs for walks and the dog just goes off, then they’re saying how the dog just disappears off out of range when taken hunting. 
 

People who can’t get their dogs to retrieve, or won’t deliver to them. People who can’t even get the dogs to pick things up ... and people who can’t stop their dogs running in and chasing... 

 

If the dog can so easily learn the difference between being allowed to do all these things then why are all these people having such problem? 
 

 

 

Dogs are good at learning things in different contexts, BUT... it is BY FAR  easier to train without bad habits and problems being instilled in the first place... than letting all those issues develop and then trying to fix them later. 
 

That’s why they say with young dogs put them in situations where they always succeed if you can ... and don’t put them in situations where they will obviously go wrong... because it’s far easier to avoid a problem than spend months trying to fix it! 

No worries, everyone has an opinion.

However, once a dog is trained, as long as it's kept up, they soon learn the difference, I've never had a problem with several dogs, I also have a mate who trains labs, his dogs are used on large shoots and are pets to.

[millrace]

The problem is 1 man's trained dog that does what "he" wants can be seen by others as poorly trained,equally I've been along side fabulously trained dogs who never went more than a few feet from their owners,,,would I want a dog like that no,would they want my dog no so each to their own as long as it does what you need it to do!!..

[Lloyd90]

4 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

No worries, everyone has an opinion.

However, once a dog is trained, as long as it's kept up, they soon learn the difference, I've never had a problem with several dogs, I also have a mate who trains labs, his dogs are used on large shoots and are pets to.

“Once a dog is trained” yes I think you can relax up and it’s not the end of the world if someone throws some stuff for your dog etc. 

It’s just knowing that doing that to a puppy that’s not training could cause issues and as I said, it’s easier to avoid issues than try to fix them. 

[WalkedUp]

I’ve had a few gundogs now, I am a believer that a dog’s training is never finished. I had my 10 year old dog out today a bit of steadiness then and gave him a bind in long cover, practicing directions and just reinforcing commands. 

[Lloyd90]

31 minutes ago, millrace said:

The problem is 1 man's trained dog that does what "he" wants can be seen by others as poorly trained,equally I've been along side fabulously trained dogs who never went more than a few feet from their owners,,,would I want a dog like that no,would they want my dog no so each to their own as long as it does what you need it to do!!..

Ive said this before I think but people will often say about their dog “I don’t want a trial dog... he’s just a shooting dog” ... which normally means it’s not steady, runs ahead out of shot range and doesn’t listen to them 🙈🤣

I think training towards the principles of a trial dog are solid principles for any dog. 

Sit to flush is important, so you don’t risk shooting your dog as it’s in hot pursuit of the game your firing at. Always amazed me seeing videos of people shooting over their dogs and they’re firing at birds or bunnies and their dogs are just behind the game ... 

 

Sit to shot allows you to send a dog to pick a bird he hasn’t seen dropped. 
 

A dog running in might not see A hazard ahead etc and can get itself in bother. 
 

 

 

 

[JDog]

13 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

You sound a right bundle of joy, get a grip!

To the op, Dogs ain't daft, if your half decent at training, your dog will soon learn the difference between being out with you and what's expected of it and it's home/family time.

Indeed, and if you spoke to any of my friends and PW companions they would confirm that I am the most miserable and dull man in the country.

However I do have two very biddable, well trained, polite, obedient and good-to-be-with spaniels. 

[Lloyd90]

25 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

I’ve had a few gundogs now, I am a believer that a dog’s training is never finished. I had my 10 year old dog out today a bit of steadiness then and gave him a bind in long cover, practicing directions and just reinforcing commands. 

Absolutely needs refreshing and staying on top of. 
 

 

 

 

 

[Old farrier]

13 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

You sound a right bundle of joy, get a grip!

To the op, Dogs ain't daft, if your half decent at training, your dog will soon learn the difference between being out with you and what's expected of it and it's home/family time.

I’m with j dog to 

seen too many animals messed up by stupidity not only dogs 

we are talking about a pup here and Young kids 

have you forgotten they have teeth like needles 

8 minutes ago, JDog said:

Indeed, and if you spoke to any of my friends and PW companions they would confirm that I am the most miserable and dull man in the country.

However I do have two very biddable, well trained, polite, obedient and good-to-be-with spaniels. 

You forgot grumpy 😡 

forgetfully 🤔

antisocial 😉

 And I know who’s dogs I’d rather be working alongside mine 👍

 

[12gauge82]

32 minutes ago, JDog said:

Indeed, and if you spoke to any of my friends and PW companions they would confirm that I am the most miserable and dull man in the country.

However I do have two very biddable, well trained, polite, obedient and good-to-be-with spaniels. 

I'm sure you do.

The point is, so are mine and yet they're pets first, they're like that without the need for all the misery, but then maybe your not as good a dog trainer as you think?

[WalkedUp]

22 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

have you forgotten they have teeth like needles 

This is one reason why we cannot get another pup for at least 4 years. A tiny pup considers everything it’s littermate. It has to learn not to mouth. Your hands can get shredded giving treats etc as their teeth are designed for cutting morsels of flesh from bone. I do not want my children anywhere near a pup whilst they are too small to know the consequence of their actions.

My dogs need to last until my youngest boy is old enough to follow instruction otherwise I’ll be picking up for myself. My oldest does not consider the dogs as pets because “they have jobs”, they are just wallpaper in the background to him. He is old enough for me to have and train a puppy. I can be very severe and boring with the pups and dogs but as @JDog explains above... the dogs are much happier when we’ll trained as it opens up so many opportunities for them. They can go anywhere and be relied upon to behave perfectly.

My sister is moving from Manchester to near me, she is now a housewife and a few weeks ago said she was looking forward to taking my dogs for walks. I said it would be an early start for her, 6.30am everyday. She laughed and said “oh, I meant I’ll take them whilst you are in work so they are not just shut up in the kennels”. I asked her if she was mad. I explained I would never, ever let her take my dogs for a walk. She said “oh but they’re so we’ll behaved..” and before she could say something like it’ll be fine I cut in with “EXACTLY!” 

[JDog]

12 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I'm sure you do.

The point is, so are mine and yet they're pets first, they're like that without the need for all the misery, but then maybe your not as good a dog trainer as you think?

I am not a dog trainer and have no pretensions and aspirations to be one. I do have well trained dogs though.

[WalkedUp]

51 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

“I don’t want a trial dog... he’s just a shooting dog” .

It’s almost a paradox as only if you trial do you know the difference 🤣

A good shooting dog should be trained as a trialling dog, a good trialling dog should be worked as a trialling dog. 

[Lloyd90]

19 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

 but then maybe your not as good a dog trainer as you think?

Tell that to the hundred's of people posting on the support groups every single week about the problems they are having  

 

Perhaps your just a dog training oracle? ... What standard are your dogs?  

I see lots of dogs on shoots I wouldn't take home if the owners paid me a considerable sum... yet the owners will proclaim "look at him go, isn't be brilliant!" 

[12gauge82]

4 minutes ago, JDog said:

I am not a dog trainer and have no pretensions and aspirations to be one. I do have well trained dogs though.

Everyone who has a dog is a dog trainer, or should be anyway, that's why there's so many dogs with issues, but that's for another thread.

The point to this thread is can you have a new, well trained gun dog and also have it as a pet, you think you can't, which is utter rubbish.

[Lloyd90]

4 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

It’s almost a paradox as only if you trial do you know the difference 🤣

A trial dog is just a well trained shooting dog, with a bit of added polish ... a trial WINNING dog, is the same but with a lot of luck! 

[JDog]

4 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Everyone who has a dog is a dog trainer, or should be anyway, that's why there's so many dogs with issues, but that's for another thread.

The point to this thread is can you have a new, well trained gun dog and also have it as a pet, you think you can't, which is utter rubbish.

My dogs are pets first and foremost. They just happen to be well trained pets.

Edited May 8, 2020 by JDog

[Lloyd90]

Just now, 12gauge82 said:

Everyone who has a dog is a dog trainer, or should be anyway, that's why there's so many dogs with issues, but that's for another thread.

The point to this thread is can you have a new, well trained gun dog and also have it as a pet, you think you can't, which is utter rubbish.

 

No, he never said you can't! That's a big jump. Just because someone doesn't constantly throw things for a dog doesn't mean it's not a pet. I'm not sure what the obsession is with people meeting dogs and wanting to throw something for them to see if they bring it back  ... 

 

I think the point we are ALL trying to make to the OP, is that if he gets some ground rules and avoids making the mistakes or putting lots of bad habits into the dog, then he will have a far easier job of it all, and hopefully avoid the considerable effort and possible expense of having to go and see trainers, travel around etc trying to get his family pet to do what he wants out shooting. 

[12gauge82]

2 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Tell that to the hundred's of people posting on the support groups every single week about the problems they are having  

 

Perhaps your just a dog training oracle? ... What standard are your dogs?  

I see lots of dogs on shoots I wouldn't take home if the owners paid me a considerable sum... yet the owners will proclaim "look at him go, isn't be brilliant!" 

Dogs are not robots and just like people, will come with all sorts of issues, the point is, you can have a well trained dog who is also a pet.

My dogs are very well behaved, although I'm no oracle, my mate I mentioned earlier is exceptional and his dogs have won many competitions, they are also family pets.

2 minutes ago, JDog said:

My dogs are pets first and foremost. They just happen to we well trained pets.

2 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

 

 

I think the point we are ALL trying to make to the OP, is that if he gets some ground rules and avoids making the mistakes or putting lots of bad habits into the dog, then he will have a far easier job of it all, and hopefully avoid the considerable effort and possible expense of having to go and see trainers, travel around etc trying to get his family pet to do what he wants out shooting. 

 

I'll certainly agree with that.