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Gamebore Dark Storm Steel with Biowad


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3 hours ago, grahamch said:

Of course the introduction of compulsory steel use should see the end of extreme pheasant shoots which are not needed and unsporting 

 

Extreme is just a word. one mans extreme could be another persons not so extreme. and then we have the added complication of overestimation of range and out and out fantasy to mix in the conundrum. OH! yes EXTREME is just a word or a fantasy/ work of fiction / imagination.  That is it. TALES OF MYSTERY AND IMAGINATION PHEASANT SHORING .  My advice buy a leica LRF Extreme might not look so extreme then.

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47 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

Extreme is just a word. one mans extreme could be another persons not so extreme. and then we have the added complication of overestimation of range and out and out fantasy to mix in the conundrum. OH! yes EXTREME is just a word or a fantasy/ work of fiction / imagination.  That is it. TALES OF MYSTERY AND IMAGINATION PHEASANT SHORING .  My advice buy a leica LRF Extreme might not look so extreme then.

I was going to reply but I can see where this is going

ATB

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9 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

What you mean to say is you can not back up the numbers  any better now than you could months ago.

And you still know best like you did months ago

Think its best left where it was

Atb

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1 hour ago, lancer425 said:

Extreme is just a word. one mans extreme could be another persons not so extreme. and then we have the added complication of overestimation of range and out and out fantasy to mix in the conundrum. OH! yes EXTREME is just a word or a fantasy/ work of fiction / imagination.  That is it. TALES OF MYSTERY AND IMAGINATION PHEASANT SHORING .  My advice buy a leica LRF Extreme might not look so extreme then.

I watched a man (with a 5-6 others) break a clay at 155 yards breaking the recorded even with a rangefinder people still said it wasn’t used correctly or argh they just made it up.  
So even with a LRF there’ll be another excuse why people can’t do things that they do.  
 

 

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13 minutes ago, welshwarrior said:

I watched a man (with a 5-6 others) break a clay at 155 yards breaking the recorded even with a rangefinder people still said it wasn’t used correctly or argh they just made it up.  
So even with a LRF there’ll be another excuse why people can’t do things that they do.  
 

 

I can see the response now to this, should be priceless

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10 hours ago, button said:

I can see the response now to this, should be priceless

By the tone of your  post and the inclusion of my expected  response being PRICELESS. I can only guess you are expecting some wild out of touch with reality Claim/ claims on my part here. Sorry to disappoint but i am offering  nothing outrageous just plain old facts , devoid of fiction of fantasy and above all HUMANE with regards The Pheasants .

To break a clay at 155 yards is possible with a shotgun, and it could even be possible to break a clay in flight at that range. Now doing this consistently enough  to look at translation of that achievement into Humanely despatching / consistently a living breathing pheasant i remain unconvinced.

 

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I’ve used steel only for all my shooting for years , wildfowling ,inland goose and ducks ,game ,crows ,pigeons etc etc and gamebore super steel ,Rc steel ,fiocchi , lyalvale all do the job .

I was on a 100 bird driven pheasant  day last year and used gamebore super steel 32 g 3s and 4s .

for average range pheasants the 4s were perfect for higher stuff the 3s did the job more convincingly , they were shot through a Winchester 101  waterfowl with full chokes 

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1 hour ago, lancer425 said:

By the tone of your  post and the inclusion of my expected  response being PRICELESS. I can only guess you are expecting some wild out of touch with reality Claim/ claims on my part here. Sorry to disappoint but i am offering  nothing outrageous just plain old facts , devoid of fiction of fantasy and above all HUMANE with regards The Pheasants .

To break a clay at 155 yards is possible with a shotgun, and it could even be possible to break a clay in flight at that range. Now doing this consistently enough  to look at translation of that achievement into Humanely despatching / consistently a living breathing pheasant i remain unconvinced.

 

That was in flight with a 12 bore its a hard shot that’s why it’s the current (as far as I’m aware) record.  
 

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1 hour ago, allanm said:

I’ve used steel only for all my shooting for years , wildfowling ,inland goose and ducks ,game ,crows ,pigeons etc etc and gamebore super steel ,Rc steel ,fiocchi , lyalvale all do the job .

I was on a 100 bird driven pheasant  day last year and used gamebore super steel 32 g 3s and 4s .

for average range pheasants the 4s were perfect for higher stuff the 3s did the job more convincingly , they were shot through a Winchester 101  waterfowl with full chokes 

As i am sure your well aware, this is typical of steel shot in the field. I said earlier i think steel shot was introduced to the shooting world"wildfowling " Here over 20 years ago now with a lot of misinformation"Chokes to name but one aspect". I do not think this helped the move to steel, but most have worked it out now and it is doing its job.

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On 03/07/2020 at 21:07, welshwarrior said:

They may pattern as well as lead dark storm but will they kill as well I doubt it as steel is to hard and too light. 

Hard shot is not a negative.

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The thing that annoys me. Steel shot should have been marketed different. When supersteels came out. Thats 2nd gen steel shot loads. It was a great product. Lead shells were creeping up to £200 per 1000 with 21g loads emerging in the market for £150 /k. Supersteel jumped from 77/k to 88/k. When asked why are shells going up. 

The price of lead is going up. So shells increase.

- But there is no lead in steel shells?

Should have been marketed and bottomed out the market. £ is king

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9 hours ago, ClemFandango said:

Yeah. That's why you can get high antimony lead shot, and copper plated lead shot. 

But normally the hard, high antimony lead shot is used in clay loads not live game is it not?

not sure that a few microns of copper, a soft metal makes lead any harder.

 

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1 hour ago, rbrowning2 said:

But normally the hard, high antimony lead shot is used in clay loads not live game is it not?

not sure that a few microns of copper, a soft metal makes lead any harder.

 

No. The high antimony lead loads were available for Wildfowling 30 years ago. 

As were the old copper plated winchester 2 ounce 2's part of the selling point was that the copper coating made them harder so there was less deformation and tighter patterns. 

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1 hour ago, rbrowning2 said:

But normally the hard, high antimony lead shot is used in clay loads not live game is it not?

not sure that a few microns of copper, a soft metal makes lead any harder.

 

Just to add to what clem fandango said on winchester double x ammo. the wrapper/ Buffer all helped to get the lead to pattern. Not one of the game loads AFAIK use buffer of any kind. Not something good lead waterfowl ammo of the old days,  or coyote and turkey lead of today would be without.

 

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3 hours ago, rbrowning2 said:

But normally the hard, high antimony lead shot is used in clay loads not live game is it not?

not sure that a few microns of copper, a soft metal makes lead any harder.

 

If I had a choice, I would get harder lead shot for live quarry. It is more effective. Soft lead shot is not good.

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24 minutes ago, motty said:

If I had a choice, I would get harder lead shot for live quarry. It is more effective. Soft lead shot is 

And your scientific proof for this is published where?

because I feel ashamed to say I don’t think I could observe any difference in a like for like kill with 5% hard lead shot or 2% soft lead shot.

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1 hour ago, rbrowning2 said:

And your scientific proof for this is published where?

because I feel ashamed to say I don’t think I could observe any difference in a like for like kill with 5% hard lead shot or 2% soft lead shot.

Harder lead will not deform anyway as essay as soft pure lead shot. You can expect  see some improvement in patterns and thus performance in simply assembled ammo with this higher antimony Lead. With more care and attention to the soft lead it will improve and has the potential in some loads at some speeds if correctly loaded to surpass the harder shot from a lethality point of view. But it is the harder lead which will Give improved patterns in typical unbuffered or typical factory offerings. Harder Lead is less dense bear that in mind, its not vast but when we are dealing with from steel @ 7.8 Copper "Pure" @8.95 Bismuth@9.79 And Lead "Pure" @11.34.  And not forgetting Hard lead melt  antimony @ 6.68 . We are not dealing with a broad area of specific gravity in any of these shot types, and this fact puts into perspective the Real potential of Tully Lethal Tungsten based shots @18.5 and a bit more some Blends. When your dealing with density between 7.8 Steel to 11.34 Lead  We are not talking massive differences and How they pattern and velocity potential certainly at closer ranges starts to become more significant to overall performance than density alone.  .

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13 hours ago, rbrowning2 said:

And your scientific proof for this is published where?

because I feel ashamed to say I don’t think I could observe any difference in a like for like kill with 5% hard lead shot or 2% soft lead shot.

Soft lead will deform too much, causing a lot of fliers and poor patterns. Patterns kill. It is that simple. 

I have done no specific scientific studies in this area.

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