410 problems

[hawkfanz]

ok reloaders having reloaded plenty 410 shells during lockdown,i now find they wont chamber in my mossy,resized and primed useing mec 600,brass appears to be still too big,any suggestions please.

[Guest cookoff013]

Plastic or steel brass part wont chamber?

[Stonepark]

Mec Super sizer if brass but with reloaded shells it is often the plastic at the crimp is the issue as the chamber is wider at the entrance and tapers towards the barrel slightly.

[hawkfanz]

it appears to be the brass but i suppose as sugested it could be end of chamber,is there a solution,eley cases ive used but fiocchi dont seem as bad.

[London Best]

9 minutes ago, hawkfanz said:

it appears to be the brass but i suppose as sugested it could be end of chamber,is there a solution,eley cases ive used but fiocchi dont seem as bad.

Cut one in half to see if the brass will go in?

[sitsinhedges]

If I ever have a problem with reloaded shells not clambering it's usually the case over full or too packed and the plastic bulging.

[Walker570]

Yes, can be the above and in a tight chamber it only needs to be a smidgin on a 410. Ask me how I know.  I use a Mec 600 for resizing and de priming and I found that the setting of the re sizing ring was absolutely essential for a good full resize. I don't have any trouble now.  I finish the turn over (6 crimp) with a GAEP soinner as there can be a bit of a 'roll over' there which makes feeding diffoicult. The spinner puts a very good finish on the cartridge.   Check the setting of your resizing ring first. It only took about one turn to solve the problem for me.

[enfieldspares]

Do what folk did back in the day (I still have one) use one of these when paper cartridges swelled and wouldn't chamber. Easy enough to make especially in .410 you just need a correct diameter drill which you should first see if a standard 12mm will do the job. Steel would substitute OK for the brass. A bit of a pain to use but they work everytime. You push the device down over the top of the cartridge down to its base NOT by hammering the cartridge into the die by the cartridge's base.

Edited August 9, 2020 by enfieldspares

[hawkfanz]

ive just resized 5 eley cases in the mec,i then took resize ring off to see if they go in unloaded or primed and i cant push them back in the ring by hand,so is the size ring worn out,

 

[sitsinhedges]

1 hour ago, hawkfanz said:

ive just resized 5 eley cases in the mec,i then took resize ring off to see if they go in unloaded or primed and i cant push them back in the ring by hand,so is the size ring worn out,

 

I had to resize a brand new sizing ring by adding a correctly sized penny washer behind it that had a fractionally smaller hole

[turbo33]

I’m not sure if you’re having problems with the brass or case. My experiences are that as the gauges go down, the cases are a tighter fit in the chamber. Ie, 12g are a very sloppy fit, 410 are tightish to start with. If the rounds have previously been plastic wad, the case is protected from distortion from the shot before the crimp opens. In the case of fibre wad, there is no such protection, and the cases get ballooned. You can resize the brass, but obviously not the plastic. I’ve noticed that with 12g little to no distortion, 20g, medium or more, and 410 quite extreme. The Americans always use plastic wads, so they seem to be able to get away with many reloads on 410 cases. I’ve also noticed, that Cases that have been crimp closed as opposed to a rto, are worse. I presume that there is more pressure built up behind the shot before the crimp opens than an rto. So for me, i keep to a shallow rto, 2mm. This seems to work well and whilst not all cases are good enough to reload, over 50% are. If I do use any old cases, i chamber them first to see if they are going to reload or not. It’s a tedious process, and why I mostly use new primed cases. 
Hope this helps.

[enfieldspares]

41 minutes ago, turbo33 said:

The Americans always use plastic wads, so they seem to be able to get away with many reloads on 410 cases. This seems to work well and whilst not all cases are good enough to reload, over 50% are. 

American made .410" cases are a delight. The stuff we suffer in the UK is mostly continental rubbish that, actaully, is not "proper" .410" (look on the base at the headstam) but their 12mm. Which is why the old bolt action BSA .410" won't usually work at all (not to be confused with the Webley bolt action .410").

[Andy H]

I only reload 410 using cork wad's and put every loaded case through a sizing die to straighten them up to fit the tightest chamber out of my 410 gun's.

[hawkfanz]

good response from u reloaders,must say the wad issue could be the problem,eley shells are f/w and fiocchi are p/w and fiocchi are far better to reload and not as problematic,as mentioned even resized unloaded eley cases are still gripped by resize ring[tested in a seperate hand loading ring]so it looks like eley cases need to be binned,might add all are rt closed.

[turbo33]

17 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

American made .410" cases are a delight. The stuff we suffer in the UK is mostly continental rubbish that, actaully, is not "proper" .410" (look on the base at the headstam) but their 12mm. Which is why the old bolt action BSA .410" won't usually work at all (not to be confused with the Webley bolt action .410").

Good point. Looking at the cases on the American YouTube reloading videos, they are well used, but still go again and again. 

[turbo33]

2 hours ago, hawkfanz said:

good response from u reloaders,must say the wad issue could be the problem,eley shells are f/w and fiocchi are p/w and fiocchi are far better to reload and not as problematic,as mentioned even resized unloaded eley cases are still gripped by resize ring[tested in a seperate hand loading ring]so it looks like eley cases need to be binned,might add all are rt closed.

Eley Rto can be quite deep. I think maybe more pressure built up so more case bulging and the case mouth gets a bit wrecked too. Note the difference. 
pics attached of fired Eley and my own. Also pic attached of Eley and mine side by side for camparison of Rto depth. 

[hawkfanz]

just to add all the reloads are in once fired cases,ive even trimmed some eley ones back a bit problem still exists.

[turbo33]

I’m sure. Tbh, I don’t think reloading Used 410 shells are worth the hassle. A new primed case is around 10p. A primer is 4p, for the faffing about of sorting, trying to open case mouths, re sizing etc, it’s only a saving of £1.50 per 25. If you have a cheap source of shot, make your own etc, that’s where I make my savings. New primed case, SP3, over powder card, fibre wad. £4.37... then add shot.  I load them by hand, but use electronic scales tgat I use for the CF.  I can comfortably make 60 an hour that way with no hassle.  
Now, if used 410 cases would reload as easily as 12g cases, that would be something!!

Edited August 12, 2020 by turbo33

[Walker570]

As said before, I just adjusted the setting of the resizing ring and eased back a bit on the crimper which if only a smidgin to low will bulge the case. The only correction I have to make is the rim of the crimp and this gets sorted with the spinner. Most if not all of my reloads slide into the chamber without any problem.  They are all fibre wad, 18.7g of #7s 19.7gr of SP3 .

I use quality used once fired Fiocchi cases and certainly do not have to faff about.  All of my shot and powder is individually weighed.

[hawkfanz]

thanks for all the imput folks,

[Salmo9]

Coincidentally, I’ve just upgraded my MEC 600 junior to 410.. The problem I’m having is resizing Eley’s 410 Trap and Extra Long cases, which I’ve got a stack of.. No such issues with Hull ‘high pheasant’ cases though.. Both Eley and Hull case bases are steel and 76mm too.. I’ve followed MEC’s advice about height of de-prime punch and resize ring but still no joy. Thought about case lube but are the Eley cases worth bothering with.? Thought I’d ******** the press up when trying to salvage the ‘resizing’ of the first Eley case..

Any assistance appreciated.

Thanks..

[Salmo9]

On 11/08/2020 at 08:41, hawkfanz said:

good response from u reloaders,must say the wad issue could be the problem,eley shells are f/w and fiocchi are p/w and fiocchi are far better to reload and not as problematic,as mentioned even resized unloaded eley cases are still gripped by resize ring[tested in a seperate hand loading ring]so it looks like eley cases need to be binned,might add all are rt closed.

Ahh, looks like I’m not alone here.. Bin it is then.

note to self - must read whole thread thoroughly before posting..

[hawkfanz]

yes salmo looks like i may have to dismantel loaded eley ones,fiocchi load just fine,so wont be buying eley 410 shells any more.regards to everyone for the input.