udderlyoffroad Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, ordnance said: A simple question, do you not understand how not being in close in contact someone with a cold, flu, CV19, can lessen your chances of them infecting you. Back to the be careful about the question you ask, because that's what you'll get an answer to. Yes I understand it can lessen the chances of them infecting me. Note: Not to zero. But the follow up question is: is it really better if they don't infect me, if I'm otherwise fit and healthy? Now my question to you: Do you not understand the difference between correlation and causation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said: Back to the be careful about the question you ask, because that's what you'll get an answer to. Yes I understand it can lessen the chances of them infecting me. Note: Not to zero. But the follow up question is: is it really better if they don't infect me, if I'm otherwise fit and healthy? Now my question to you: Do you not understand the difference between correlation and causation? What would you suggest the reason is that infections drop during lockdowns ? if its not less social interactions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 Just now, ordnance said: What would you suggest the reason is that infections drop during lockdowns ? if its not less social interactions. 1. You didn't answer my question 2. How do you know infections are dropping? An infection != a positive covid test Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 14 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said: 1. You didn't answer my question 2. How do you know infections are dropping? An infection != a positive covid test I don't need testing or infection numbers to understand that the less people interact the less opportunity there is for infectious disease spread, its pointless you don't get it. Bellow springs to mind when trying to explain things to you. Small and Far Away! - YouTube Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 25 minutes ago, ordnance said: I don't need testing or infection numbers to understand that the less people interact the less opportunity there is for infectious disease spread, its pointless you don't get it I get it. I'm asking whether concentrating on that simple relationship between interactions and infections is really going to solve the problem. In any case, other than insult me and change your argument, you still haven't answered my question. 26 minutes ago, ordnance said: Bellow springs to mind when trying to explain things to you. 'Bellow' indeed does spring to mind, because you appear to be a bag of wind with a veritable idée fixe. And I can at least do links and quotes. Whilst we're linking each other youtube videos, take a gander at these Cheap shots re the fallacy of not going to Specsavers are beneath you, too. But seemingly not me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) Quote 44 minutes ago, ordnance said: Lockdowns decrease infections, fact. Once again, I'm challenging your assertion that. As i said that's a separate debate, my reply was to your above post. I never said lockdowns were going to solve any problem, only that they lowered infection rates. Quote I get it. I'm asking whether concentrating on that simple relationship between interactions and infections is really going to solve the problem. Edited February 3, 2021 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 9 hours ago, ordnance said: the number of deaths would be much higher without lockdowns 12 minutes ago, ordnance said: I never said lockdowns were going to solve any problem, only that they lowered infection rates. If you don’t consider death to be a problem, QED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said: If you don’t consider death to be a problem, QED. I though you would figure that out for yourself infections, hospitalisation, deaths. You lower infections you lower CV 19 deaths. Lowering deaths is not solving the the CV19 pandemic, its saving lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 10 hours ago, ordnance said: Lowering deaths is not solving the the CV19 pandemic, its saving lives. Err , is that not the same thing ? Anyway , there is no 'solving' of covid, every medical professional Ive spoken to says its going nowhere, its mutations are that fast and agile, its going to be a case of chasing after it every 'flu season' with vaccines, just like we now do with the flu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 4 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Err , is that not the same thing ? Anyway , there is no 'solving' of covid, every medical professional Ive spoken to says its going nowhere, its mutations are that fast and agile, its going to be a case of chasing after it every 'flu season' with vaccines, just like we now do with the flu. Exactly. I do get a feeling that those giving the orders do believe they will eliminate it. I do not agree, we are going to have to live with it and lockdowns only delay that day happening. I can see annual vaccinations as the only way forward. Personally I have never had the normal flu vaccine and cannot remember ever having influenza but this variety is just a tad more dangerous, so I have had my jab for this year and expect to have to have a booster at the end of 2021. My Doctors practise already reminds me when I need my 'lockjaw' booster, so it will no doubt be the same procedure. All the discussionback and forth is in my view just hot air. It's here to stay, get used to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 26 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Err , is that not the same thing ? Anyway , there is no 'solving' of covid, every medical professional Ive spoken to says its going nowhere, its mutations are that fast and agile, its going to be a case of chasing after it every 'flu season' with vaccines, just like we now do with the flu. I agree it will probably be like the flu, a yearly vaccinations depending on what strain is in circulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 12 minutes ago, Walker570 said: Exactly. I do get a feeling that those giving the orders do believe they will eliminate it. I do not agree, we are going to have to live with it and lockdowns only delay that day happening. I can see annual vaccinations as the only way forward. Without a doubt. Weve had flu jabs for decades, and flu has hardly been beaten, the common cold is just a 'meh' now days, and up until recently no one really feared flu, despite 10s of 1000s of deaths attributable to it every year. Covid will just join the list of hazards in life, we will learn to live with it, and for some yes, die with it. The difference is the level of fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, ordnance said: I though you would figure that out for yourself infections, hospitalisation, deaths. Go home Ordnance, you're drunk. Your frankly baffling overapplication of Occam's razor just simply doesn't reflect reality Further, you're yet again conflating infections with positive tests. Lastly, your last 2 posts are in direct conflict with each other, viz. "I never said lockdowns were going to solve any problem, only that they lowered infection rates" and then "You lower infections you lower CV 19 deaths" The latter statement is far from proven. It really isn't my fault that life is more complex than you think it is. 39 minutes ago, Walker570 said: It's here to stay, get used to it. Indeed, which is why we desperately, urgently, need an alternative to lockdown. If patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel, "lockdown harder and stricter" is the last refuge of the intellectually bereft. Edited February 3, 2021 by udderlyoffroad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
243deer Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 this 'discussion' has all the same traits as the brexit debate - some folk will never accept that it has happened and now we simply have to get on and live our lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 24 minutes ago, 243deer said: this 'discussion' has all the same traits as the brexit debate Hmmm, I suppose I'd like us to get to the point in the debate where we have our collective 'AstraZenecca Moment', and all but the most rabid remainer sees the EU for what it really is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 28 minutes ago, 243deer said: this 'discussion' has all the same traits as the brexit debate - some folk will never accept that it has happened and now we simply have to get on and live our lives. If it were only that simple , neither debate is 'over' , and whilst most of us are not smug about how things have spun out, I should imagine if the boot was on the other foot.... 2 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said: Hmmm, I suppose I'd like us to get to the point in the debate where we have our collective 'AstraZenecca Moment', and all but the most rabid remainer sees the EU for what it really is. Very quiet on that front Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 4 hours ago, Rewulf said: Without a doubt. Weve had flu jabs for decades, and flu has hardly been beaten, the common cold is just a 'meh' now days, and up until recently no one really feared flu, despite 10s of 1000s of deaths attributable to it every year. Covid will just join the list of hazards in life, we will learn to live with it, and for some yes, die with it. The difference is the level of fear. We have a friend who is totally scared to go to the supermarket to buy food. She is mid life age and normally a very sensible person. I see people like this every time I go out ...they have been petrified by Government Scientists and in some cases Government itself along with media .... today a half page picture in the Telegraph of an embalmer working on a covid patient ....do we really need that. The adverts from Government are no better.. It really is totally pathetic. Heaven preserve us from a third world war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted February 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 23 minutes ago, Walker570 said: We have a friend who is totally scared to go to the supermarket to buy food. She is mid life age and normally a very sensible person. I see people like this every time I go out ...they have been petrified by Government Scientists and in some cases Government itself along with media .... today a half page picture in the Telegraph of an embalmer working on a covid patient ....do we really need that. The adverts from Government are no better.. It really is totally pathetic. Heaven preserve us from a third world war. I agree. I have seen people who previously were outgoing individuals who have become shells of their former selves through the media barrage of fear. And they are not going to revert when lockdown is relaxed. I fear they are scared for life. There ones I know like this are women and you said “she”. I wonder if it is a more of a problem for women? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 Problem for women...I don't know, maybe men cover it up more. My wife has no problem , just uses her common sense and gets out and does it. We are both over the 80 mark and have been through lifes troubles a number of times and for us this is just another bump in the road. You are correct, how do we get people back to enjoying their lives with all these doom and gloom media stories. I wonder if life has become too cosy and protected that people cannot now face up to danger like they used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 hour ago, AVB said: I have seen people who previously were outgoing individuals who have become shells of their former selves through the media barrage of fear. And they are not going to revert when lockdown is relaxed. I'm not old enough to remember (barely six when the wall came down), but wasn't there a version of this phenomenon during the height of the cold war? We forgot about the threat of MAD after a while, didn't we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted February 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 4 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said: I'm not old enough to remember (barely six when the wall came down), but wasn't there a version of this phenomenon during the height of the cold war? We forgot about the threat of MAD after a while, didn't we? I don’t recall anything near similar. Not whipped up into a frenzy by the media at least. But nowadays we have ‘media’ coming out of our ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 they would be better of being angry had i been in charge when the police caught fifty slap head students partying this week they would have been dancing a lot faster on the end of a tazer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 minute ago, clangerman said: they would be better of being angry had i been in charge when the police caught fifty slap head students partying this week they would have been dancing a lot faster on the end of a tazer And perhaps that is why you are NOT in charge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted February 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: And perhaps that is why you are NOT in charge! He’ll be spouting “come the day of the revolution brother you will be first against the wall” next Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 minute ago, AVB said: He’ll be spouting “come the day of the revolution brother you will be first against the wall” next not a fan of the left loons thank you they are no better than boris gump and co Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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