Defender 110

[Centrepin]

8 hours ago, Fuddster said:

 

Would love another series LR but I've become too accustomed to air con,power steering etc.

f.

All series motors, in fact all proper land rovers have air con.

Roof off doors off = Air con

....and don't forget about the shut lines......drafty even in summer = proper air con, always cold.

Power steering of course depends on your upper body strengths 💪😉

[London Best]

1 hour ago, Centrepin said:

All series motors, in fact all proper land rovers have air con.

 

Power steering of course depends on your upper body strengths 💪😉

Anybody who thinks series Land Rovers need power steering has never driven one with the swivels in good condition and properly set up.

[Walker570]

13 hours ago, Jim Neal said:

How are you finding the availability of LPG these days in your neck of the woods (West Leics aren't you?)?  After BP came out of the market and now Shell are following, over the course of about 3 years I went from tripping over the stuff everywhere to having a serious problem on my hands.

I'm self-employed and have engine-powered machinery built in to my van which runs on only LPG (no petrol backup).  My nearest sources of gas are a Morrisons about 9 miles south or a small independent car sales/servicing sort of place about 5 miles north.  Nothing else for a bloody long drive in any direction.  If I leave home in the morning with an empty tank I have to pray whichever outlet I gamble on has got gas, because very often they're out!  If you've driven 9 miles south to go to a job near there, then have to drive 14 miles north again to fill up, then 14+ miles back again it kind of cocks your day up!

Yes, it is as if they are trying to dump LPG.  Fortunately after Shell did away with the supply 4 miles away and on a regular route I have another supplier 6 miles but fortunately one of my shoot areas is also out that way so top up. What amazes me is the difference in price at the moment from around 60p to over 90p   At presnt I am paying 85p but if I drive across to Lincolnshire for a days shooting I can pick up a full tank between Peterborough and Uppingham on the A47 for 65p. 

[London Best]

When I bought a 110 V8 with an LPG conversion in 1989 I wrote to Shell for details of all their stations with LPG in U.K.

They sent me a list of SIX!

[JohnfromUK]

When we used LPG (back in the 1980s) we shared our own tank with a neighbour and bought Shell Commercial Propane RV, which was greenhouse heating gas, but the RV signified 'road vehicle' and that the road excise duty had been paid by Shell prior to delivery.  It was cheap enough, but despite trying several different conversions, on a variety of vehicles - all were prone to problems of various types.  I think modern systems are a good deal better.

We stopped using it when diesels became much more popular - and so pleasant to drive diesels were available.

[London Best]

25 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

When we used LPG (back in the 1980s) we shared our own tank with a neighbour and bought Shell Commercial Propane RV, which was greenhouse heating gas, but the RV signified 'road vehicle' and that the road excise duty had been paid by Shell prior to delivery.  It was cheap enough, but despite trying several different conversions, on a variety of vehicles - all were prone to problems of various types.  I think modern systems are a good deal better.

We stopped using it when diesels became much more popular - and so pleasant to drive diesels were available.

Interesting. Have to say I never had any issues with the LPG installation I had (fitted before I bought the vehicle). It would even start on LPG on a sub zero morning. I, too, have only had diesels since then.

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, London Best said:

Have to say I never had any issues with the LPG installation

All were usable by a knowledgeable driver - but unsuited to the 'non mechanical' in the family.  For example mine (system by Tartarini) needed a primer button to be pressed for about 2 seconds before starting from cold to 'flush gas' into the manifold.  Get that right - and it was perfect, get it wrong and it could be tricky to start (a bit like a flooded carburettor).

The biggest annoyance was having no fuel gauge in the car.  In those days you had a rather crude gauge on the tank only.  I think the tank on mine (2 litre Triumph) held 50 litres, which was only good for about 250 miles reliably, whereas 50 litres of petrol would have been good for about 350 miles.

[London Best]

2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

All were usable by a knowledgeable driver - but unsuited to the 'non mechanical' in the family.  For example mine (system by Tartarini) needed a primer button to be pressed for about 2 seconds before starting from cold to 'flush gas' into the manifold.  Get that right - and it was perfect, get it wrong and it could be tricky to start (a bit like a flooded carburettor).

The biggest annoyance was having no fuel gauge in the car.  In those days you had a rather crude gauge on the tank only.  I think the tank on mine (2 litre Triumph) held 50 litres, which was only good for about 250 miles reliably, whereas 50 litres of petrol would have been good for about 350 miles.

Can’t remember the size of the gas tank but the V8 110 did about 150 miles on a fill. There was a ‘traffic light’ type gauge on the dash. The 90 litre petrol tank was only good for 150 miles as well on that vehicle, at around 9/10 mpg! The LPG did less mpg but worked out as if doing 17/18 on petrol, cost wise. Best vehicle I ever had but I just could not afford to go anywhere in it, innit!

[Walker570]

The Landie is the second vehicle I have had set up for LPG and I have never had a problem until just recently when performance started to detriorate. Put this down to the vaporizer being 13 years old and needing renewal. That did present a problem as the nearest mechanic capable of doing the job properly was 30 miles away.

I have an indicator on the dash showing me what gas I have left and that works very well. Starting from LPG in non zero weather is fine. Very cold and I start on petrol and then 30 seconds later change over.

[ditchman]

the way the govt' are going at the moment....you would be best to sell your landies now....and invest in 4 cotton reels ...a wax candle ...rubber bands and 4 lollipop sticks.....

[Jim Neal]

9 hours ago, Walker570 said:

Yes, it is as if they are trying to dump LPG.  Fortunately after Shell did away with the supply 4 miles away and on a regular route I have another supplier 6 miles but fortunately one of my shoot areas is also out that way so top up. What amazes me is the difference in price at the moment from around 60p to over 90p   At presnt I am paying 85p but if I drive across to Lincolnshire for a days shooting I can pick up a full tank between Peterborough and Uppingham on the A47 for 65p. 

It's more profound than that: they HAVE dumped LPG - with little warning and zero consideration of the cost and inconvenience inflicted upon people who rely on it.  Probably 80% of the country's LPG availability has disappeared with Shell and BP both coming out of the market.  6-7 years ago when I got wind of BP's plans, I spoke to someone at BP who said it was costing them 5x the profit they made from LPG sales to keep the infrastructure running.  I spoke to Shell more recently, who assured me they had no plans to come out of the market.... followed by them promptly doing just that, only months after the conversation.

It's shocking really when you think about it.  LPG reportedly pollutes way less than standard petrochemicals and costs significantly less (although I understand a lot of that is because of exemption from duty) but it just hasn't really caught on with the motoring masses.

OK, so you lose (I think) about 3% of the performance from the engine compared to petrol, I can deal with that.  Yes, the tank is an issue, as most vehicles will end up losing their spare wheel to accommodate the tank, but that is mitigated by run-flat tyres in some cases.  Some people choose not to mitigate against it - after all, how often do you get a complete failure from a puncture?  The cost of an AA tow home once every 5 years is probably way less than re-shodding your car with run-flats.  You can even carry 1 or 2 cans of that emergency repair stuff you blast in to the tyre to get you home.  Risks and costs considered, having no spare wheel wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me at least.

It's becoming a bit of a worry for me.  My machine is coming up for 12 years old, but I bought the "Rolls Royce" version and with regular servicing and careful treatment I'd say she's got plenty more life in her yet.  How soon though until I can't get fuel for it any more?  I could get a petrol tank fitted, it's a dual fuel engine after all, but that's going to be a ball ache to install and operate like that.  Or I could bite the bullet and replace the machine with a diesel powered equivalent but they're stinky and sooty, not great parked on a customer's driveway with the door open.  But you're talking north of £20k to do that, plus the vodka & tonic.

I currently pay 57.9p/L for gas at Morrisons and about 78p/L  at the independent place.  On average, my machine churns out about £1200 of turnover for each 50L tank of gas it uses, so I'm not sweating over the difference.

Thanks for the useful tip about the LPG on the A47, I appreciate that.  It would be a pretty long round trip for me as a regular thing, but more than feasible in an emergency!  Which station is it?  Morcott by any chance?

[Walker570]

Yes, Morcott I think. On the turn to Ketton.  Family owned business I think.

[Jim Neal]

On 17/05/2021 at 07:41, Walker570 said:

Yes, Morcott I think. On the turn to Ketton.  Family owned business I think.

Ah OK there's two stations near each other, the nearest to that junction is the Jet garage... just looked on google's street view and I can see a bulk LPG tank next to the forecourt

Edited May 18, 2021 by Jim Neal

[Walker570]

Yup, that's the one. Nice old boy runs it but think maybe his son has now taken over.  Nice new shop and they also have a car sales operation next door.

Just now, Walker570 said:

Yup, that's the one. Nice old boy runs it but think maybe his son has now taken over.  Nice new shop and they also have a car sales operation next door.

on EDIT they also sell Magnum ice creams

[Centrepin]

9 hours ago, Jim Neal said:

Ah OK there's two stations near each other, the nearest to that junction is the Jet garage... just looked on google's street view and I can see a bulk LPG tank next to the forecourt

It must be next months picture at £139.9 for diesel 🤔

[Wb123]

There was a thread on here a little while back that touched on home lpg tank installations.

 

I have not yet gone down the lpg route myself however I did chat to a lost flogas delivery driver the other week who tells me they do still fill private tanks for automotive use.

 

 

[JohnfromUK]

22 minutes ago, Wb123 said:

There was a thread on here a little while back that touched on home lpg tank installations.

 

I have not yet gone down the lpg route myself however I did chat to a lost flogas delivery driver the other week who tells me they do still fill private tanks for automotive use.

 

 

Years (1980s) ago we had one supplied by Shell - and shared it with a neighbour.  It was a nominal 1 ton capacity and used an electric pump.  The gas was bought as Shell commercial propane RV - where RV stood for Road Vehicle - which meant the road duty was paid by Shell.

It was (then anyway) a bit cheaper and much more convenient than using another 'garage' supplier (they were quite few and far between then), but the rental on the tank was not insignificant.  From memory there were quite a lot of rules about siting (distance from buildings, boundaries and it was mounted on a concrete pad that was free from any inflamable material) and insurance was also required.