Scully Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 5 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said: So does steel shot have a future unless used in biodegradable wads? Guess the answer is no. Your guess is as good as mine. On game shoots the answer would seem to be no, unless shooting estates and grouse moors don’t mind their land resembling some clay grounds, but even if they didn’t mind, the environmentalists would, and it would be just one more thing for the antis to use against us. Clay grounds ( it is claimed ) don’t like steel shot because ( it is claimed ) of the risk of ricochets, but some don’t mind plastic wads judging by the amount littered about. We can’t have it both ways. Personally I think that if you need to sell your product to a game dealer then it is they who call the shots, other than that, use lead and plastic if you like. I use both lead and steel, plastic and fibre, and will continue to do so until both are banned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 13 minutes ago, holloway said: Do the buyers of game really exist ? In any numbers I mean ,to me it has always been a weak excuse to justify the shooting of large numbers of shot pheasants.Is there such an industry.? NO..... i'll wager you no more game has been sold this year than the previous 20 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 1 hour ago, 8 shot said: NO..... i'll wager you no more game has been sold this year than the previous 20 years Agreed …..my experience is that small shoot members usually take a brace home for there own consumption beaters included ,the bigger shoots struggle to dispose of there bag let alone sell it.There are of course always a few exceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 7, 2022 Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 9 hours ago, 8 shot said: NO..... i'll wager you no more game has been sold this year than the previous 20 years I don’t think anyone has claimed using steel will increase the sale of shot game, just its continued sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted February 7, 2022 Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 2 hours ago, Scully said: I don’t think anyone has claimed using steel will increase the sale of shot game, just its continued sale. The 7 or 8 orgs. Waitrose etc. It was there selling point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 7, 2022 Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 23 minutes ago, 8 shot said: The 7 or 8 orgs. Waitrose etc. It was there selling point. Did the organisations claim they could sell more, or just that supermarkets such as Waitrose were reluctant to stock a product containing lead shot, as they claimed their customers wouldn’t buy it? 🤷♂️ If customers won’t buy it, game dealers won’t either as they have no one to sell it too, unless it’s at a much reduced cost and sold as pet food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted February 7, 2022 Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 (edited) text.txtSteel shot game opens up a new markets to Europe apparently Edited February 7, 2022 by 8 shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet11-87 Posted February 7, 2022 Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 (edited) 18 hours ago, Scully said: Unfortunately there are dealers out there who will only offer a much reduced PX deal for none steel proof guns, and some who won’t take them at all. However, the same dealers won’t take a reduced offer for a none steel proofed gun, on the premise that they can be proved for steel or used for standard steel shot only. In the midst of all this is the fact that lead shot hasn’t been banned; yet if it’s use is to be ‘voluntarily phased out’ for the shooting of game bound for commercial use, then surely the same applies for its use for ALL shooting due to that concern of the environment? Regarding steel shot damaging barrels, that is what the encompassing wad is for….to prevent the shot from coming into contact with the barrels until it has left them. Steel shot proofed barrels are made in exactly the same manner as none steel proofed barrels, and from exactly the same materials, so everything hangs on that wad. as far as the politics, game meat market and second hand gun market is concerned regarding the transition to steel i think only time will tell but youre most probably right. but as far as the shooting goes,the lack of demand for lead and massive demand for non toxic is going to see some instability in supply and demand and pricing.i think game shooters at £30 a bird anyway honestly wont feel the squeeze like pigeon shooters. the cheapest rate for a steel non plastic cartridge is roughly £400 a thousand atm, you can load 1k of steel standard fiber wad for about £250 if i use new primes cases or under £200 if i use spent hulls. so if you get 5000 carts out of a barrel which i imagine you will, that leaves you£750-£1000 in the green for a new gun or barrel and thats IF its actualy needed after 5000 carts. Edited February 7, 2022 by Sweet11-87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 7, 2022 Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 1 hour ago, 8 shot said: text.txtSteel shot game opens up a new markets to Europe apparently Well there you go then. We mustn’t forget the case is plastic too! 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted February 7, 2022 Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 (edited) . Edited February 7, 2022 by Smokersmith Answered my own question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet11-87 Posted February 7, 2022 Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 It’s single use plastics they want rid off. You can reload or recycle a hull. A plastic wad goes wherever it goes and stays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 7, 2022 Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Sweet11-87 said: It’s single use plastics they want rid off. You can reload or recycle a hull. A plastic wad goes wherever it goes and stays Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cjbram Posted February 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted February 7, 2022 Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 Just a thought here se know shot contacts the barrels (lead streaking) when you use fibre wad cartridges so obviously without a protective shot cup steel will contact the barrels damage can be minimised with chrome bore’s (probably) have any of you considered using far shorter barrels there bye reducing the distance steel shot is able to cause damage travelling up the barrels we know that steel patterns tighter possibly caused by the strong shot cup so possibly just fireing steel over a fibre wad could give a more open pattern as a note I’ve got a few now valueless guns that I intend to just use fibre and steel in should it become nessecary the tighter choked one I am contemplating reducing barrels length to eliminate choke as opposed to having it removed just a thought or two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted February 7, 2022 Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 Name me one instance when anything has come to harm from anything to do with plastic ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted February 7, 2022 Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, 8 shot said: Name me one instance when anything has come to harm from anything to do with plastic ! Can’t think of a instance but that’s not to say it doesn’t happen along with lead killing thousands of people and birds each year should we really be leaving this all over the countryside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted February 7, 2022 Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 Exactly that old farrier, you surly cannot have a significant increase in the use of steel shot without the biodegradable wads they must go hand in hand and possibly the icing on the cake is also paper cases. Then the question given this is a pigeon shooting forum just what price are we all prepared to pay for cartridges to shoot pigeons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted February 7, 2022 Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 8 minutes ago, Old farrier said: Can’t think of a instance but that’s not to say it doesn’t happen along with lead killing thousands of people and birds each year should we really be leaving this all over the countryside We can pick up twice that amount of plastic left in numerous farm gate ways after every weekend won’t ban Maccy D and the like from using there plastic or Tesco etc. sandwich wrappers where your trades men clear the van out. Just saying, gone a bit of topic 🙄. Coincidentally we don’t use plastic wads on our shoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cjbram Posted February 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said: Exactly that old farrier, you surly cannot have a significant increase in the use of steel shot without the biodegradable wads they must go hand in hand and possibly the icing on the cake is also paper cases. Then the question given this is a pigeon shooting forum just what price are we all prepared to pay for cartridges to shoot pigeons? Agree. I don't know a price it's a hobby for me I go when I can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted February 7, 2022 Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 16 minutes ago, 8 shot said: We can pick up twice that amount of plastic left in numerous farm gate ways after every weekend won’t ban Maccy D and the like from using there plastic or Tesco etc. sandwich wrappers where your trades men clear the van out. Just saying, gone a bit of topic 🙄. Coincidentally we don’t use plastic wads on our shoot We don’t use it either however it is on our shoot that I picked up these some guns and guests don’t seem to be able to observe the landowners request and 4 more carrier bags full after a shower of rain many are very old and came to light after a field was ploughed they could have been there 20 years I also see your point about dumped plastic waste as I remove plenty each week however them dumping it isn’t really a excuse for us to do the same back on topic pigeon shooting is free apart from the cartridges it’s a relative cost the game shot his steel cartridges cost the same as yours but his day isn’t usually free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted February 7, 2022 Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 I asked the question as steel shot is the only sensible cost alternative to lead, but yet again I am told express have today increased the cost of their cartridges, no doubt the rest will probably follow. Hence heading toward what £450 or more for a 1000 steel shot cartridge with biodegradable wad in 12gauge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted February 7, 2022 Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 16 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said: I asked the question as steel shot is the only sensible cost alternative to lead, but yet again I am told express have today increased the cost of their cartridges, no doubt the rest will probably follow. Hence heading toward what £450 or more for a 1000 steel shot cartridge with biodegradable wad in 12gauge. I know for a fact that there is a huge component shortage for all cartridge manufacturers, but without causing panic it does look likely there maybe a shortage of all cartridges this summer. Overheads are mounting i'm afaid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet11-87 Posted February 7, 2022 Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 Am I right in thinking When the change comes it only states that it’s for live quarry heading to the commercial food chain?. If so, if you plan on keeping them for personal consumption you can continue to use lead shot. So you still have options. I don’t think many manufacturers will keep game line carts made in lead for a reasonable price. Why would they. clay carts will still be an option however controversial that subject has forever been. can reload your own or you can reload steel with standard fiber and we can see just how much damage if any unprotected steel shot does to guns of today. I’ve read and heard all the horror stories of scouring from steel but I’ve never actually seen it and I’ve never seen any research done into the subject other than what TGS did with that old spanish gun with a hand full of wild fowl carts. BASC have means and funding to do such a simple an obvious test but they’re more concerned with repeatedly asking the danish wildfowlers if they like Damascus.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 7, 2022 Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 2 hours ago, 8 shot said: Name me one instance when anything has come to harm from anything to do with plastic ! Discarded Plastic fishing nets? Plastic bags and detritus being swallowed by fish and birds? Fishing line entangling birds and animals? I’m sure there’ll be other instances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet11-87 Posted February 7, 2022 Report Share Posted February 7, 2022 Don’t now any exact instances but We’ve all heard the live stock eating plastic wads and farmers getting vet bills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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