Are Pintail Off The List In Wales , Or Parts Of Wales ?

[marsh man]

Having a quick look at this weeks Shooting Times in Tesco's this morning, I am sure it said something about the ban , or proposed ban on shooting Pintail in Wales or certain areas of Wales , also something about limits on Wigeon numbers .

Who proposed this latest nail in the coffin and can anyone enlighten us ?

[Weihrauch17]

I think Drakeford wants to ban all shooting in Wales, a truly awful specimen of a human being. 

[albifrons]

It’s not a ban but a cessation of shooting Pintail, Shoveller and Pochard, in certain parts of Wales, where webs counts indicates declines in these species, in these locations. Also restrictions on wigeon, with limits imposed upon clubs, again based on webs counts in that area. Yet observed numbers of duck and total bag returns by wildfowlers, indicate both are stable.
 

All imposed by NRW under the precautionary principle.

NRW the lapdogs of the Labour government in Wales are the thin end of the wedge, as shooting is on the back foot here in Wales.

 

 

[marsh man]

7 minutes ago, albifrons said:

It’s not a ban but a cessation of shooting Pintail, Shoveller and Pochard, in certain parts of Wales, where webs counts indicates declines in these species, in these locations. Also restrictions on wigeon, with limits imposed upon clubs, again based on webs counts in that area. Yet observed numbers of duck and total bag returns by wildfowlers, indicate both are stable.
 

All imposed by NRW under the precautionary principle.

NRW the lapdogs of the Labour government in Wales are the thin end of the wedge, as shooting is on the back foot here in Wales.

 

 

Many THANKS for the update , bad enough but could have been worse 

[albifrons]

35 minutes ago, marsh man said:

Many THANKS for the update , bad enough but could have been worse 

It’s going to get worse, believe me!

[grahamch]

Why do socialist scum want to spoil folks sport? Maybe they dont like folk ot being sheep and part of a crowd. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by grahamch

[jall25]

Have a look on the Welsh Governments Instagram - all they bang on about is Pride / LGBTPlus / rainbow hats and the welsh language

Im all for choices but seriously all this banging on the drum  is really getting boring 

[RyanMc]

10 hours ago, jall25 said:

Have a look on the Welsh Governments Instagram - all they bang on about is Pride / LGBTPlus / rainbow hats and the welsh language

Im all for choices but seriously all this banging on the drum  is really getting boring 

Its the only pandemic over the last few years if you ask me, everywhere is getting this tripe rammed into us. I'm neither racist, sexist etc., I dislike everyone equally 😛.

[Penelope]

14 hours ago, albifrons said:

It’s not a ban but a cessation of shooting Pintail, Shoveller and Pochard, in certain parts of Wales, where webs counts indicates declines in these species, in these locations. Also restrictions on wigeon, with limits imposed upon clubs, again based on webs counts in that area. Yet observed numbers of duck and total bag returns by wildfowlers, indicate both are stable.
 

All imposed by NRW under the precautionary principle.

NRW the lapdogs of the Labour government in Wales are the thin end of the wedge, as shooting is on the back foot here in Wales.

 

 

Indeed, a sorry state of affairs, Whitefront.

[albifrons]

4 hours ago, Penelope said:

Indeed, a sorry state of affairs, Whitefront.

An effective moratorium on GWFG worked perfectly for Welsh wildfowlers for many years, but Drakeford and his drips decided to completely ban the GWFG from the quarry list.

Vitue signalling at its best!

[Penelope]

Just now, albifrons said:

An effective moratorium on GWFG worked perfectly for Welsh wildfowlers for many years, but Drakeford and his drips decided to completely ban the GWFG from the quarry list.

Vitue signalling at its best!

Yep, an agenda there for sure.

[scolopax]

Very similar to the pressure wildfowling clubs are under in England from NE where they shoot over SSSI.

the consent process is being used to greatly restrict wildfowling activity in various ways, visits, numbers and species.

Mallard is one species in focus,as they are not migrating to the UK like they used to but staying on the continent.

WEBS counts are being used against us mainly relying on the precautionary principle.  There is no doubt certain quarry species are not visiting our shores in the same numbers they used to, but that is not the same as a population decline. 

[Penelope]

8 hours ago, scolopax said:

Very similar to the pressure wildfowling clubs are under in England from NE where they shoot over SSSI.

the consent process is being used to greatly restrict wildfowling activity in various ways, visits, numbers and species.

Mallard is one species in focus,as they are not migrating to the UK like they used to but staying on the continent.

WEBS counts are being used against us mainly relying on the precautionary principle.  There is no doubt certain quarry species are not visiting our shores in the same numbers they used to, but that is not the same as a population decline. 

I know of one club who's NE prescribed seasonal bag limit would be a decent flight for two.

[Pushandpull]

The greatest concern is that NE are apparently using consents to extinguish wildfowling over "protected areas" (SSSIs etc.). by wildfowling clubs - which have to record and report what is shot. The restrictions are tenuously based on very local WEBS counts, which are themselves only samples or snapshots. More to the point similar privately owned and shot marshes in many cases simply ignore any restrictions. Worse still, fed ponds within a few minutes flight are not subject to control at all.

The significant figure is of course the flyway/international population rather than changed distribution due to short-stopping in milder winters.

The precautionary principle is a sort of intellectual cop-out which allows one to bypass science. Whole books have been written about it and if you feel strong enough you can attempt them.

There is a strong scientific case for adaptive harvest management (broadly as in North America) applied to all migratory waterfowl across the  African - Western Eurasian region. however it's hard to see it ever happening here, and unless BASC etc. can find a remedy wildfowling as we have known it will soon no longer exist.

[Penelope]

1 hour ago, Pushandpull said:

The greatest concern is that NE are apparently using consents to extinguish wildfowling over "protected areas" (SSSIs etc.). by wildfowling clubs - which have to record and report what is shot. The restrictions are tenuously based on very local WEBS counts, which are themselves only samples or snapshots. More to the point similar privately owned and shot marshes in many cases simply ignore any restrictions. Worse still, fed ponds within a few minutes flight are not subject to control at all.

The significant figure is of course the flyway/international population rather than changed distribution due to short-stopping in milder winters.

The precautionary principle is a sort of intellectual cop-out which allows one to bypass science. Whole books have been written about it and if you feel strong enough you can attempt them.

There is a strong scientific case for adaptive harvest management (broadly as in North America) applied to all migratory waterfowl across the  African - Western Eurasian region. however it's hard to see it ever happening here, and unless BASC etc. can find a remedy wildfowling as we have known it will soon no longer exist.

Very sad and I think likely to be the case.

[marsh man]

9 hours ago, Pushandpull said:

The greatest concern is that NE are apparently using consents to extinguish wildfowling over "protected areas" (SSSIs etc.). by wildfowling clubs - which have to record and report what is shot. The restrictions are tenuously based on very local WEBS counts, which are themselves only samples or snapshots. More to the point similar privately owned and shot marshes in many cases simply ignore any restrictions. Worse still, fed ponds within a few minutes flight are not subject to control at all.

The significant figure is of course the flyway/international population rather than changed distribution due to short-stopping in milder winters.

The precautionary principle is a sort of intellectual cop-out which allows one to bypass science. Whole books have been written about it and if you feel strong enough you can attempt them.

There is a strong scientific case for adaptive harvest management (broadly as in North America) applied to all migratory waterfowl across the  African - Western Eurasian region. however it's hard to see it ever happening here, and unless BASC etc. can find a remedy wildfowling as we have known it will soon no longer exist.

A very interesting post , the frightening sentence was the last one , wildfowling as we know it will soon no longer exist , this would be a very sad day indeed , we have seen small chunks of our sport been chipped away for many years , for us it started in 1968 when the estuary was made into a reserve and the long tradition of punt gunning sadly came to a end , then a good chunk of the Waders were removed , W A G B I changed it's name to B A S C which never seem to hold the same clout , then the big one when lead was replaced with non toxic shot .

For most wildfowlers the holy grail on the duck list is the drake Pintail , we were never short of Pintail but when you first started your lifetime apprenticeship into wildfowling you still had to learn to be in the right place at the right time , after a while the pieces in the jigsaw puzzle was beginning to take shape and you learnt where they were and where they go , all you had to do was try to intercept them and put one in the bag , easier said than done , then at long last the day came up when your dream was granted .

I had left my punt tied up at one of the ronds and walked half a mile along the wall to try and get underneath one when they were leaving the estuary to rest on a flooded field that we couldn't go on , after a while I had the odd one go right and left but not within shot , then one did and having given it two shots it carried on as if it hadn't been shot at , then it's wings began to stiffen and it turned round to go back on the estuary , after a couple of hundred yards it stopped flying , then collapsed and was lying on top of the water , a quick walk back to the punt and after a row in top gear I was finally picking up my first drake Pintail , the duck itself was in perfect condition and one of our mates ended up setting it up on a stand , this was left in the cabin of our boat shed for a few years for anyone to admire who happen to come in for a warm up and a cuppa , talking about our cabin in the boat shed , this was without bragging better than where some people live , it was all painted out with curtains up the shuttered windows , a bench where all the coal and wood was kept , Vernon Ward prints on the wall and a small pot belly stove in the corner and the Pintail was on a small shelf on the wall , days like the above may one day never to be repeated , that will be a very sad day indeed    MM

[scolopax]

On 02/12/2022 at 10:26, Penelope said:

I know of one club who's NE prescribed seasonal bag limit would be a decent flight for two.

One club on the Humber, which has annual peak counts of Pinkfooted geese over 20,000, was a granted a consent that included the legal entitlement to shoot one, whole, singular, Pinkfooted goose.