BASC lifts call for restraint on shooting waterfowl across UK

[Conor O'Gorman]

As a result of the improved weather conditions BASC has lifted calls for restraint in the shooting of waterfowl in the UK. As of 21 December the severe weather clock has reset to zero for England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

https://basc.org.uk/basc-lifts-call-for-restraint-on-shooting-waterfowl-across-uk/

[Old farrier]

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

As a result of the improved weather conditions BASC has lifted calls for restraint in the shooting of waterfowl in the UK. As of 21 December the severe weather clock has reset to zero for England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

https://basc.org.uk/basc-lifts-call-for-restraint-on-shooting-waterfowl-across-uk/

Yet again I see Basc posting on social media 

before members are informed 

why is this? 
 

as a member I find it immensely irritating as in my opinion it is not the thing gentlemen do !! 

surely it should be members first as it’s members paying for it 

although I’m not surprised seems like standards are falling across the board 

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Yet again I see Basc posting on social media and pretending they hold sway over DEFRA policy.

Surely common sense should pervade when it comes to 'restraint' 
But , its like BASC think they have some kind of traffic light system , with no basis in law or authority ,that no one wants or needs ?

[Conor O'Gorman]

15 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Yet again I see Basc posting on social media 

before members are informed 

why is this? 
 

as a member I find it immensely irritating as in my opinion it is not the thing gentlemen do !! 

surely it should be members first as it’s members paying for it 

although I’m not surprised seems like standards are falling across the board 

Thanks. I will pass that back to colleagues. An email has also gone out with this information.

[Old farrier]

42 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Surely common sense should pervade when it comes to 'restraint' 
But , its like BASC think they have some kind of traffic light system , with no basis in law or authority ,that no one wants or needs ?

So it should 

Sadly Basc don’t think we have any why would they ? 
they don’t seem to think the wage paying members are as important as the hits they get from social media 

in fact the members are a afterthought and probably a nuisance 

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

in fact the members are a afterthought and probably a nuisance 

Apparently 150,000+ members paying £80 a year  (£12 million quid) plus advertising revenue, and other profits from training ect, is a big afterthought !
But out that revenue , they do need a glossy mag to put those adverts in, and the company Range Rovers arent going to lease themselves ?
I wonder if the running costs in salaries and expenses are published , you know , for the members interest ?

 

[Dave at kelton]

1 hour ago, Old farrier said:

Yet again I see Basc posting on social media 

before members are informed 

why is this? 
 

as a member I find it immensely irritating as in my opinion it is not the thing gentlemen do !! 

surely it should be members first as it’s members paying for it 

although I’m not surprised seems like standards are falling across the board 

My email arrived at 15.34 today!

[Old farrier]

Just now, Dave at kelton said:

My email arrived at 15.34 today!

After this was posted 

[Old farrier]

8 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Apparently 150,000+ members paying £80 a year  (£12 million quid) plus advertising revenue, and other profits from training ect, is a big afterthought !
But out that revenue , they do need a glossy mag to put those adverts in, and the company Range Rovers arent going to lease themselves ?
I wonder if the running costs in salaries and expenses are published , you know , for the members interest ?

 

Hopefully they are not past the point of no return and can get there act together 

There should be somewhere a manifesto perhaps they should consult it and put the members interests first 

when I go to the pub later I could be talking to a non member about the informative email I received 

his reply oh that’s interesting I’ll join so I’m better informed 

or 

I know that

i saw it on social media for free 

Maybe I’m just being trivial but maybe I’m not 

[Conor O'Gorman]

4 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Surely common sense should pervade when it comes to 'restraint' 
But , its like BASC think they have some kind of traffic light system , with no basis in law or authority ,that no one wants or needs ?

BASC's announcements were part of a long established formal procedure that the association is directly involved in and its based on data from weather stations nationwide.

I think most of us would agree that's it's a positive measure for the shooting organisations to raise awareness of the voluntary restraint phase in the public domain - we are not the only audience. Moreover, part of that messaging at this phase is for other countryside users, such as dog-walkers, ramblers, fishermen and bird-watchers to take care not to cause unnecessary disturbance to birds which may be continuing to struggle in areas slower to recover from the recent difficult conditions.

Also its been at least a decade since we have had a widespread prolonged period of winter weather that has triggered the procedure in all four countries and there will be many newcomers to shooting over that period for whom this might be of interest.

Ministers have the power to impose temporary shooting bans for severe weather. The procedure all have agreed to provides some flexibility in approach and avoids a one-size fits all approach nationwide with the voluntary restraint phase being a starting point and awareness raising from BASC and the other shooting organisations demonstrates a responsible approach from all. The following video may help (its from a few years ago bit still relevant)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILESbcS7jc8&t=6s

More information here:

https://basc.org.uk/advice/severe-weather-and-waterfowl-shooting/

3 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Apparently 150,000+ members paying £80 a year  (£12 million quid) plus advertising revenue, and other profits from training ect, is a big afterthought !
But out that revenue , they do need a glossy mag to put those adverts in, and the company Range Rovers arent going to lease themselves ?
I wonder if the running costs in salaries and expenses are published , you know , for the members interest ?

 

BASC never makes a profit, it would be illegal for BASC to do so. As a non-profit making, mutual society registered under the Community Benefits Act, any surplus funds must be used for the benefit of members and the pro-shooting objectives of the Association. Those are decided by Council elected from the members, and which is accountable to the members each year in general meeting. BASC salaries are approved by Council and benchmarked against the market, roughly in the middle of the appropriate spread. None of the minority who need a company car drives a Range Rover and I cannot recall one example for the 20 years I have worked at BASC so perhaps you might consider the facts based on my personal experience vs your fictional view? Staff who carry loads of kit tend to have pick-ups, others typical middle of the range saloon cars including Fords, Toyotas and Skodas.

Click the link below for BASC's 2021 annual review which includes an accounts update.

https://basc.org.uk/basc-annual-review/

[Dave at kelton]

33 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

BASC's announcements were part of a long established formal procedure that the association is directly involved in and its based on data from weather stations nationwide.

I think most of us would agree that's it's a positive measure for the shooting organisations to raise awareness of the voluntary restraint phase in the public domain - we are not the only audience. Moreover, part of that messaging at this phase is for other countryside users, such as dog-walkers, ramblers, fishermen and bird-watchers to take care not to cause unnecessary disturbance to birds which may be continuing to struggle in areas slower to recover from the recent difficult conditions.

Also its been at least a decade since we have had a widespread prolonged period of winter weather that has triggered the procedure in all four countries and there will be many newcomers to shooting over that period for whom this might be of interest.

Ministers have the power to impose temporary shooting bans for severe weather. The procedure all have agreed to provides some flexibility in approach and avoids a one-size fits all approach nationwide with the voluntary restraint phase being a starting point and awareness raising from BASC and the other shooting organisations demonstrates a responsible approach from all. The following video may help (its from a few years ago bit still relevant)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILESbcS7jc8&t=6s

More information here:

https://basc.org.uk/advice/severe-weather-and-waterfowl-shooting/

BASC never makes a profit, it would be illegal for BASC to do so. As a non-profit making, mutual society registered under the Community Benefits Act, any surplus funds must be used for the benefit of members and the pro-shooting objectives of the Association. Those are decided by Council elected from the members, and which is accountable to the members each year in general meeting. BASC salaries are approved by Council and benchmarked against the market, roughly in the middle of the appropriate spread. None of the minority who need a company car drives a Range Rover and I cannot recall one example for the 20 years I have worked at BASC so perhaps you might consider the facts based on my personal experience vs your fictional view? Staff who carry loads of kit tend to have pick-ups, others typical middle of the range saloon cars including Fords, Toyotas and Skodas.

Click the link below for BASC's 2021 annual review which includes an accounts update.

https://basc.org.uk/basc-annual-review/

Well said Connor!

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

I think most of us would agree that's it's a positive measure for the shooting organisations to raise awareness of the voluntary restraint phase in the public domain - we are not the only audience. Moreover, part of that messaging at this phase is for other countryside users, such as dog-walkers, ramblers, fishermen and bird-watchers to take care not to cause unnecessary disturbance to birds which may be continuing to struggle in areas slower to recover from the recent difficult conditions.

Are they BASC  or PW members too? How will this audience, many of whom are fully aware of the birds struggling, need reminding of this? 

Sounds a bit patronising TBF. 

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

BASC never makes a profit, it would be illegal for BASC to do so. As a non-profit making, mutual society registered under the Community Benefits Act, any surplus funds must be used for the benefit of members and the pro-shooting objectives of the Association.

Sounds a bit like councils blowing their yearly budget on vanity projects at the end of the fiscal year? 

I'm struggling to see what you spend the revenue on, when you continue to. 

A. Not use the 'fighting fund' to actually fight. 

B. Cut the legal cover, when multiple orgs continue to offer it, at much less than BASC membership? 

C. Pretend to 'give' shooting experiences to novices, while actually charging them for it! 

D. Offer subsidised DSC courses, when you're actually charging what every other company charges, sometimes more? 

BASC  does a good talk, but not a very good walk. 

[Conor O'Gorman]

@Rewulf given your interest in how BASC is run perhaps you could consider an application for the BASC Council elections? There are two national Council seats up for election and the application deadline is 30 December.

https://basc.org.uk/bascelection/

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

@Rewulf given your interest in how BASC is run perhaps you could consider an application for the BASC Council elections? There are two national Council seats up for election and the application deadline is 30 December.

https://basc.org.uk/bascelection/

Thank you very much, but I've heard critics of BASC  stand more chance of winning the jackpot in the Euro lottery, than getting on BASC  Council 😂

Conor, you are ways polite and eloquent, and I truly think you believe in the ethos of your organisation, but you need to stand back and look at where this criticism is coming from, and why. 

It isn't just disgruntled ex members, and bored keyboard warriors, it's people genuinely concerned for the future of shooting, and the apparent lack of interest BASC shows in the sectors they are not interested in. 

One example being the lead 'phase out' which you championed to save the type of shooting BASC is most interested in, game. 

Unfortunately, this willingness to embrace a lead ban, has thrown pretty much the rest of shooting under a bus, did you not think labelling lead thus, would not provoke efforts at a total ban, where you know full well there are elements, and sectors of government extremely hostile to all shooting sports, and private firearm ownership in general? 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Thanks @Rewulf next year BASC will be fighting battles on many fronts including our continued fight against the Health and Safety Executive's lead restriction proposals for England, Wales and Scotland. 

BASC members vote for the candidates - and if you would like to apply to be a candidate for election there is some due diligence paperwork to complete first. It's not a lottery and it's all outlined here:

https://basc.org.uk/bascelection/

[harkom]

On 22/12/2022 at 21:01, Conor O'Gorman said:

Thanks @Rewulf next year BASC will be fighting battles on many fronts including our continued fight against the Health and Safety Executive's lead restriction proposals for England, Wales and Scotland. 

You're 'having a larff aren't you??

[Ajarrett]

Be interesting for Conor to explain what BASC's role was in the tightening of the criteria by which a wildfowling suspension can brought to bear. When we challenged SE Region they didn't seem to know there had been a change - or indeed what it originally was!

'It used to be snow-covered or frozen ground'

[scolopax]

4 hours ago, Ajarrett said:

Be interesting for Conor to explain what BASC's role was in the tightening of the criteria by which a wildfowling suspension can brought to bear. When we challenged SE Region they didn't seem to know there had been a change - or indeed what it originally was!

'It used to be snow-covered or frozen ground'

What is the change and when did it happen? 

[Ajarrett]

The change is from snow-covered or frozen ground, to frozen grass and air temperature. Apparently nobody at BASC knows when the change happened our who agreed it!

[Terry2016]

On 21/01/2023 at 08:44, Ajarrett said:

The change is from snow-covered or frozen ground, to frozen grass and air temperature. Apparently nobody at BASC knows when the change happened our who agreed it!

And yet, you, the chairman of a wildfowling club, disaffiliated from BASC still ask BASC ....how ironic.... 

[holloway]

On 21/01/2023 at 08:44, Ajarrett said:

The change is from snow-covered or frozen ground, to frozen grass and air temperature. Apparently nobody at BASC knows when the change happened our who agreed it!

Well go on then enlighten us.