eco wads

[quentyn]

i have been playing with "eco wad" cartridges recently and i have noticed that there seem to be 3 broad kinds 

1, wads made out of a sea weed derivative ( Eley) that seem to dissolve in water after a week or 2 

2, ones made out of cardboard ( not tried any of these personally yet) 

3, ones made of a "compostable plastic "

Of the 3 the last ones i have concerns, the wads seem to be to the naked eye to just be "plastic" - i appreciate that  they are compostable plastic but my experience with putting compostable plastics ( mainly bags and magazine covers)  in my compost heap shows that some of them take multiple years to break down. I havent had the compostable plastic wads in the heap for long enough but i wonder how long they take to break down. The bases / gas seals are quite thick so i suspect its going to be a while. 

Has any one else had a play and seen one actually break down ? if a farmer finds one of the "compostable plastic" ones it will be a hard sell to convince him that they are not harmful to his sheep. Am i better off sticking with the Seaweed derivative wads  ? 

[HantsRob]

TGS did a recent Hull video, and they've discussed it a lot before. There has to be a line between shelf life and degredation. So far the hydrowad seems a great option.

I think a lot of compostable ones need to be a certain moisture and warmth level that often an English winter field won't give. That said I've seen some slug looking messes that may be more of the sea weed variety that do better.

I would love to see a study of all the "eco" wads, in different situations that are realistic and not lab based!

[Scully]

I posted this last month. 

[quentyn]

17 minutes ago, Scully said:

I posted this last month. 

and i am absolutely fine with that... its the ones that still look like a wad months later that worry me  

[Scully]

1 minute ago, quentyn said:

and i am absolutely fine with that... its the ones that still look like a wad months later that worry me  

I have since discovered these are Eley Eco Pro wads, none of which could be found a couple of weeks later. 

[8 shot]

I used Eley Ecowads on the spring drilling this year, as we know it was pretty dry this year and some were still recognisable 6 to 7 weeks later but soon dissolved after a weekend of heavy showers, also discovered that the four petals on the wads didn't open like the traditional plastic one do. I didn't find one out of the 100 used.  

[Jimbo yorks]

People need to get their head around "biodegradable" 

There's no time set for somthing to be "biodegradable" however if it can be broken down by bacteria in the natural world then it's infact biodegradable. To what extent though is debatable. 

Eley wads are soluble more than biodegradable, that's why they go all mushy and sticky and essentialy melt away. Other bio plastics tend to get brittle and break down with exposure to the outside world but they don't leave behind any of the polymer chains like the photo degradable wads which just turn to micro plastics.

Everyone knows fibre wads are biodegradable yet I've seen them linger around for up to a year. I think people's expectations of what's classed as biodegradable are different to the scientific community 

[Poor Shot]

29 minutes ago, Jimbo yorks said:

People need to get their head around "biodegradable" 

There's no time set for somthing to be "biodegradable" however if it can be broken down by bacteria in the natural world then it's infact biodegradable. To what extent though is debatable. 

Eley wads are soluble more than biodegradable, that's why they go all mushy and sticky and essentialy melt away. Other bio plastics tend to get brittle and break down with exposure to the outside world but they don't leave behind any of the polymer chains like the photo degradable wads which just turn to micro plastics.

Everyone knows fibre wads are biodegradable yet I've seen them linger around for up to a year. I think people's expectations of what's classed as biodegradable are different to the scientific community 

Good post.

 

Not that I am aligning your opinion with mine but we also need to take another look at old plastics wads and livestock situation. Farmers fields all over country are littered with all sorts of plastic pollution. How often do you see remnants of bale wrapping stuck on fencing or hedging? How often do you see feed sacks left to one side to rot? In and around sheds you'll see plenty of broken feed buckets and other plastic detritus about the place.

I'm not so sure that most livestock farmers are concerned about a hydrowad which is quite small, coloured green and will be gone in a year or so. Fibre wads are of the same size, take the same amount of time to degrade, are non-digestable and would cause just about the same amount of bother to a grazing animal that the plastic or hydrowad wad would alternative after all. 

We should all be concerned about littering the countryside with true plastic wads but I think the old 'farmer don't like plastic wads' excuse is a but weak from both the farmers and shooters perspective. I would happily shoot a lead game cartridge with the hydrowad over a true plastic wad (and perhaps even fibre wads if the performance was improved). 

With that in mind it's their land their rules.

[rbrowning2]

The compostable plastic wads will take a very long time to decompose (hence the comments in the Hull video) the plastic is aimed at the industrial composting process and requires temperatures of 50 or 60 degree C to quickly some 12weeks to decompose as required to meet EN 13432.  Same process being used when supermarkets recycle certain plastic waste collect back from customers.

https://www.european-bioplastics.org/faq-items/what-are-the-required-circumstances-for-a-compostable-product-to-compost/

https://wickedleeks.riverford.co.uk/features/where-do-supermarket-plastic-collections-really-go/

 A plastic that decomposes quickly but is also fit for end purpose is a massive challenge for the plastics industry and has not been effectively solved hence the global issue of plastic waste in the environment and the packaging industry, product manufactures returning to paper bags and cardboard packaging. 

The eley wads were created by a Spanish plastics firm back in 2011 with a few million euros of EU grant money and are PVA based like the fishing products now available.

Any solution to the biodegradable plastic will come from the plastics and packaging industry R&D and industry which is worth many billions and many times that what the cartridge manufactures are ever likely to spend on R&D they are just using what is available.

Cartridge manufactures should have to put on their packaging how long the wads typically take to decompose so we can make an educated decision when purchasing the product.

 

[rbrowning2]

10 hours ago, Poor Shot said:

Good post.

 

Not that I am aligning your opinion with mine but we also need to take another look at old plastics wads and livestock situation. Farmers fields all over country are littered with all sorts of plastic pollution. How often do you see remnants of bale wrapping stuck on fencing or hedging? How often do you see feed sacks left to one side to rot? In and around sheds you'll see plenty of broken feed buckets and other plastic detritus about the place.

I'm not so sure that most livestock farmers are concerned about a hydrowad which is quite small, coloured green and will be gone in a year or so. Fibre wads are of the same size, take the same amount of time to degrade, are non-digestable and would cause just about the same amount of bother to a grazing animal that the plastic or hydrowad wad would alternative after all. 

We should all be concerned about littering the countryside with true plastic wads but I think the old 'farmer don't like plastic wads' excuse is a but weak from both the farmers and shooters perspective. I would happily shoot a lead game cartridge with the hydrowad over a true plastic wad (and perhaps even fibre wads if the performance was improved). 

With that in mind it's their land their rules.

 

your experience is different to mine, fibre wads at a fibre only clay ground degrade in a few weeks not a few or many years.

I shot and recovered the Express earth wad and showed one to a dairy farmer who’s ground i shoot over and he said no way was i to use them they open up like helicopter rotors are ridged and tough, brown in colour.

As you say their land, your permission so play by their rules or don’t play.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by rbrowning2

[Jimbo yorks]

Supposedly warter has banned hull hydrowads because they take to long to breakdown. That was the talk of the shoot I was at on Tues.

Or is it that its used as a test bed for alot of gamebore stuff? I bet the gamebore offering takes just as long as a hull hydrowad to biodegrade.

 

[HantsRob]

I suspect some may be due to any discounts a site gets by stocking a certain brand cartridge, as to whether they allow competitors.

[rbrowning2]

55 minutes ago, Jimbo yorks said:

Supposedly warter has banned hull hydrowads because they take to long to breakdown. That was the talk of the shoot I was at on Tues.

Or is it that its used as a test bed for alot of gamebore stuff? I bet the gamebore offering takes just as long as a hull hydrowad to biodegrade.

 

Even Ben Husthwaite says similar in this reply when someone asked if steel shot was used in the youtube comments.

 Husthwaite

2 months ago

 @Robert Smith  we used the quad seal. Some of the wads don’t degrade. One of the shoots have a certain wad on the pegs for 13 months no change. We don’t need steel yet so not pressure to use