SxS cartridge choice

[THEINVISIBLESCARECROW]

Life's complicated, after years of O/U with 32g carts I've acquired a SxS. An AYA XXV 26" & stocking up with 28g carts soon for it. I asked about loads a while back & 28g was the advice given. In my selection I have some old Eley 30g, my thoughts are being an older powder & a softer cart to use would they sill give muzzle flip ? Especially as it's a 26" gun. My theory is when these carts were made the use of SxS as a game gun was more common than now & they are game cart's. I also have Gamebore clear pigeon 30g. The SxS is intended for decoying + walking the hedgerows & rough ground for flushed birds, the O/U will now be for high Crows or flightline pigeon. Eventual I'll have 32g or 28g but I'm over thinking these 30g & it will annoy me untill they are gone.

[enfieldspares]

Hello. If you were over Leicester way I could let you try a selection of cartridges (on clays) and you could see what is the most best answer. Here's my 2p FWIW as someone who has only ever shot a SBS.

English #4 shot - unless you've a heavy 1 1/4 oz load and at least 1/4 choke it will wound more than kill on pheasant. I shot one drive at Stapleford park on pheasant with Hull's 1 oz of English #4 and put them away, This in a gun choked 1/2 and 1/2 in both barrels. I hit four birds and all four came down. None were dead.

English #5 shot - an 1 1/8 ounce of English #5 was for a long time a "go to" load of my late father's generation and earlier. It gave good kill on ground game, especially hare, and pretty much kills what it hits. The other advantage was that the shot was easier to pick out of the bird when dressing it or eating it.

English #6 shot - the old standard load of those of  slightly later than my father's generation of 1 1/16 oz aka 30 gram of English #6. Killed well, patterned well, less severe on the shoulder than a  1 1/8 oz load. But a size that for best results needs premium quality shot. Not plated or extra hard but just well round and well graded to ensure best patterns.

English #7 shot - Payne-Gallwey's load advocated in "High Pheasants" for DRIVEN pheasant in a open choked gun. Best shot I ever saw on game used nothing but in a Purdey bore TRUE and IMPROVED. But and here's the but is maybe not the best choice for walked up game where you are shooting them as they fly away.

The OP isn't over thinking and IMHO his 30 gram loads if English #6 will do the job in an open bored gun. A bit of choke and he'll be OK with English #5 in 30 gram. Same shot weight in English #7 would kill anything and everything and be deadly on crows. But anything shot under twenty yards may be a bit full of shot.

As far as guns go the AYA isn't a lightweight gun and other than maybe slightly more muzzle blast it'll work with anything and 30 gram is for sure not to disappoint.

[PeterHenry]

Just to add - I put 30g and some softer 32g cartridges through my AYA no2's no trouble.

Lyalvale 32g '5' fiber wad 'Super Game' work perfectly well without being too fierce on the shoulder (in my estimation at least).

Also, re muzzle flip (and you may already know this, but I didnt figure it out for years so I'll mention it anyway) - if you hold the barrels instead of the forend, you get far better control and far less muzzle flip with a side by side.

[THEINVISIBLESCARECROW]

My first shotgun was a BSA Snipe single barrel, I can't remember what carts I had for my first attempts at missing things but I do vividly remember it flipping skywards !!

[JohnfromUK]

I use a softish 1 oz (28g) of No 6 in the form of Hull Imperial Game.  I use the fibre wad version (required where I shoot) and they suit a lighter gun and are sensibly priced.  Any 1 oz will do, and No 5 or No 6 will depend on choking and expected range etc.  Mine are usually in an AyA 28" barrelled gun, choked 1/4 and 1/2 I think.

[tonyshooter]

A pal and myself have an AYA 25 SLE ( 25 " barrels but a very similar gun ) each.

I use Fiocchi Pigeon 32g N06 and he uses Eley Impax 28g No 6.

We are both extremely happy with our respective gun / cartridge combinations and both of us " suffer " negligible " recoil .

Edited January 26, 2023 by tonyshooter

[millrace]

When i used to be able to get them my go to was rc sipe 32g 6....thru aya no2 

Ive also made quite a few foxes have a very bad day with bb,s in same gun.....lol

[JohnfromUK]

9 minutes ago, tonyshooter said:

We are both extremely happy with our respective gun / cartridge combinations and both of us " suffer " negligible " recoil

Much depends on how much shooting you are doing and over what duration.  I have used 32g when shooting walked up grouse (very few - maybe 10 in a good day - shots and at fast departing targets). 

But when doing the (very occasional for me) simulated day, I do notice recoil from 21g, but then I may shoot 75 cartridges in less than 15 minutes, and maybe 150+ in a day.

[London Best]

3 hours ago, THEINVISIBLESCARECROW said:

Life's complicated, after years of O/U with 32g carts I've acquired a SxS. An AYA XXV 26" 

Sorry, but,

AYA XXV’s don’t come in 26”. 
The clue is in the XXV...........25 inch. 
If you have a 26 inch AYA ejector box lock it is most likely a No.4, or possibly a Yeoman ejector. If you have a side lock it is most likely a No.2.

[PeterHenry]

3 hours ago, London Best said:

Sorry, but,

AYA XXV’s don’t come in 26”. 
The clue is in the XXV...........25 inch. 
If you have a 26 inch AYA ejector box lock it is most likely a No.4, or possibly a Yeoman ejector. If you have a side lock it is most likely a No.2.

On a sightly diffrent topic - I picked up an AYA brochure from a game fair last year that gave the impression that now a Churchill rib is available as an option to order on a number of their guns. I've also read about Churchill ribs on some old English 26" guns.

However, thats not to take away from your point that AYA XXV's dont come in 26" by definition.

[ditchman]

28g #7's...........william evans designs his guns around those majic figures

[THEINVISIBLESCARECROW]

6 hours ago, London Best said:

Sorry, but,

AYA XXV’s don’t come in 26”. 
The clue is in the XXV...........25 inch. 
If you have a 26 inch AYA ejector box lock it is most likely a No.4, or possibly a Yeoman ejector. If you have a side lock it is most likely a No.2.

It was sold as a XXV I thought 26" but never measured so could be 25" it has the high raised rib. I'm definately no AYA expert. The only other I've had was a No4 but when I googled about No4's it didn't match the description.

[JohnfromUK]

AyA have been able to supply 25" barrels and/or Churchill ribs to special order on other models to order.  A friend has a Model 53 with 25" barrels. 

As far as I know the XXV inlay on the rib was only used on the model 25 guns, but I may be wrong.

[Townie]

On 26/01/2023 at 15:19, enfieldspares said:

Hello. If you were over Leicester way I could let you try a selection of cartridges (on clays) and you could see what is the most best answer. Here's my 2p FWIW as someone who has only ever shot a SBS.

English #4 shot - unless you've a heavy 1 1/4 oz load and at least 1/4 choke it will wound more than kill on pheasant. I shot one drive at Stapleford park on pheasant with Hull's 1 oz of English #4 and put them away, This in a gun choked 1/2 and 1/2 in both barrels. I hit four birds and all four came down. None were dead.

English #5 shot - an 1 1/8 ounce of English #5 was for a long time a "go to" load of my late father's generation and earlier. It gave good kill on ground game, especially hare, and pretty much kills what it hits. The other advantage was that the shot was easier to pick out of the bird when dressing it or eating it.

English #6 shot - the old standard load of those of  slightly later than my father's generation of 1 1/16 oz aka 30 gram of English #6. Killed well, patterned well, less severe on the shoulder than a  1 1/8 oz load. But a size that for best results needs premium quality shot. Not plated or extra hard but just well round and well graded to ensure best patterns.

English #7 shot - Payne-Gallwey's load advocated in "High Pheasants" for DRIVEN pheasant in a open choked gun. Best shot I ever saw on game used nothing but in a Purdey bore TRUE and IMPROVED. But and here's the but is maybe not the best choice for walked up game where you are shooting them as they fly away.

The OP isn't over thinking and IMHO his 30 gram loads if English #6 will do the job in an open bored gun. A bit of choke and he'll be OK with English #5 in 30 gram. Same shot weight in English #7 would kill anything and everything and be deadly on crows. But anything shot under twenty yards may be a bit full of shot.

As far as guns go the AYA isn't a lightweight gun and other than maybe slightly more muzzle blast it'll work with anything and 30 gram is for sure not to disappoint.

Excellent advice.