billy86 Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 Like the look of the William Powell sovereign Does any one own one or shot one ? how do you rate it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) It's a boxlock that is ashamed of itself. So wears side plates to pretend o be a sidelock. Cogswellback in the day did similar with the Konor model. It's a concept I think lacking honesty in that it's trying to appear to be what it isn't. Save your money and buy a good condition Arrietta, Armas Garbi, AYA No 1 or other "Spanish best" sidelock that's pre-owned. Not £5,000 for something the moment you walk out of Powell's shop will loose 20% of its worth or more. Form should follow function in a gun IMHO. What do these sideplates add? The boxlock design doesn't need them to make it function. It doesn't improve the mechanism in away that,say intercepting sears might do. The boxlock is a design that is the best of form following function. I've two French 1920s made boxlock ejectors. Manufrance Fusil Robust Model 28E. One ,12 bore, one 16 bore. One cost £240 the other £60. Both don't have uneccessary sideplates but what each does have is that they are self-openers. To my mind therefore both are more practical...better for purpose...that this £5,000 Powell Sovereign. Forget the sideplates on a boxlock. Spend the money on demanding a boxlock that is a self-opener. If the French did it on a machine made mass produced gun in the 1920s why isn't it being done in the 2020s? Edited February 12, 2023 by enfieldspares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHenry Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 1 hour ago, billy86 said: Like the look of the William Powell sovereign Does any one own one or shot one ? how do you rate it ? I've looked at them as well, but never used one. I think - from memory - they are made by Rizzini, so it may be worth looking at their side by sides as well. There's one without the side plates as well, in case you agree with enfieldspares above. Takeing a wild guess now - am I right in thinking the draw is that its superior steel shot proofed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 Certainly not IMHO the internals! There's too much "being different" to my liking. https://sportingshooter.co.uk/article/william-powell-sovereign-sidebyside-test-review Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) Probobly paying for name . Powell's ,when they were Powell's , used to buy in continental barrelled actions and finish them in Birmingham and were open about it . After they were bought out , the guns as far as I know ,are bought in finished , so you might as well just buy one from a quality Italian or Spanish maker and save money . Powell's claimed quite rightly to be Birmingham's premier Gunmaker as they were solely Birmingham based and did not have a London address as many others did . Was sorry to see them sold and lose the Birmingham connection .A sad day for the Birmingham Gun trade . Edited February 12, 2023 by Gunman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 just out of interest how is the engraving done ...is it acid etched ...stamped....machine engraved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 Probobly lazer engraved , hand work would cost m re than the guns worth . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Gunman said: Probobly lazer engraved , hand work would cost m re than the guns worth . that is what i was thinking.......are most guns of that build quality laser etched ?...how are AYA's etched ? (#1's & 2's )...to my untrained eye they look stamped and finished by hand ? Edited February 12, 2023 by ditchman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy86 Posted February 12, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 Thanks for the reply’s It was the superior steel proofing that was making me interested in one ,just for future proofing I have an aya no 2 at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) I agree that a three inch chamber capable of taking the steel loads of the future sounds attractive. These will fire standard one ounce and one and a sixteenth charges of shot but at higher velocities that presently allowed under current European CIP Rules. But it is early days and other gunmakers will come along and produce similar...even in side by side. Build it first and everyone says "Wow!" Build it second or third and you learn from the mistakes of that first built one and create an improved product. Your Number 2 will work fine. It is a good gun. Edited February 12, 2023 by enfieldspares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy86 Posted February 12, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 3 hours ago, PeterHenry said: I've looked at them as well, but never used one. I think - from memory - they are made by Rizzini, so it may be worth looking at their side by sides as well. There's one without the side plates as well, in case you agree with enfieldspares above. Takeing a wild guess now - am I right in thinking the draw is that its superior steel shot proofed? Yes that was the reason I was asking what did you think of the handling off them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 A guy where I beat uses a Chapuis boxlock ejector. Nice enough gun but spoiled, again my opinion so who am I to judge, by having a Deeley type catch on the forend rather than an Anson rod. https://www.chapuis-armes.com/en/side-by-side-rifle/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHenry Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 1 hour ago, billy86 said: Yes that was the reason I was asking what did you think of the handling off them Sorry, I can't help you there - I haven't handled one I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 2 hours ago, ditchman said: that is what i was thinking.......are most guns of that build quality laser etched ?...how are AYA's etched ? (#1's & 2's )...to my untrained eye they look stamped and finished by hand ? AyA's to my knowledge are engrave by traditional methods , although the Spanish engravers tend to use hammer and punch , thats a more like a pointed chisel rather than the hand gravers used in the UK . There are numerous types of engraving , pantograph machines , lazer , photo etching, rolling and in some cases actually cast into the body .All down to the quality and the man hours . Machine / lazer engraving can be expensive to set/program for a one off, up but can then be constantly repeated . A good way to tell is if the scrolls are consistantly too perfect . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) Stick a couple of sideplates on it, call it a "William Powell" (although the actual name when David and Peter Powell owned it was "William Powell and Son) and add £1,500 to the price. Or the OP can just go direct to the head of the stream and look here? http://www.rizzinispecialist.co.uk/?page_id=116 http://www.rizzinispecialist.co.uk/?page_id=144 http://www.rizzinispecialist.co.uk/?page_id=169 http://www.rizzinispecialist.co.uk/?page_id=12 Edited February 12, 2023 by enfieldspares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy86 Posted February 12, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 3 hours ago, enfieldspares said: Stick a couple of sideplates on it, call it a "William Powell" (although the actual name when David and Peter Powell owned it was "William Powell and Son) and add £1,500 to the price. Or the OP can just go direct to the head of the stream and look here? http://www.rizzinispecialist.co.uk/?page_id=116 http://www.rizzinispecialist.co.uk/?page_id=144 http://www.rizzinispecialist.co.uk/?page_id=169 http://www.rizzinispecialist.co.uk/?page_id=12 That box lock is lovely , wonder if they do double triggers for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, Gunman said: Powell's ,when they were Powell's , used to buy in continental barrelled actions and finish them in Birmingham and were open about it They were - and were originally separated by being called the "William Powell Heritage" series. In the later days, at least some of them were made in Spain by Arrietta. The 'better' grades were certainly completed in Birmingham, but possibly the cheaper ones (the range available was quite large at one stage even including a droplock boxlock) may have been very largely done in Spain/Italy? I think later they also went to Italy and agree with other posts that current source is Rizzini (Batista Rizzini I believe). I am trying to find an old catalogue to scan. Edited February 12, 2023 by JohnfromUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
button Posted February 12, 2023 Report Share Posted February 12, 2023 1 hour ago, billy86 said: That box lock is lovely , wonder if they do double triggers for it Yes no cost option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
button Posted February 13, 2023 Report Share Posted February 13, 2023 https://www.scribehound.com/guns/s/shotguns/a-5-k-shotgun-and-a-15-k-shotgun-whats-the-difference?utm_source=Game+Card&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=8thFeb&utm_id=GunsOnPegs&utm_content=CTA This gives a good insight regarding Rizzins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungle The Bear Posted February 25, 2023 Report Share Posted February 25, 2023 I picked up a William Powell Monarch (Arrieta) 20 bore 30” Five pin Sidelock fully cased with accessories very recently (mint condition ) I believe this was the mid range one when they were built by Arrieta, I have the original receipt too, It will shoot standard steel if I ever need to, until then I’ll enjoy it the way it is, it’s a stunning wee gun for under a third of the new cost! I am biased mind you as I really like Arrieta and Spanish Sidelocks in general Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
button Posted February 25, 2023 Report Share Posted February 25, 2023 2 hours ago, Bungle The Bear said: I picked up a William Powell Monarch (Arrieta) 20 bore 30” Five pin Sidelock fully cased with accessories very recently (mint condition ) I believe this was the mid range one when they were built by Arrieta, I have the original receipt too, It will shoot standard steel if I ever need to, until then I’ll enjoy it the way it is, it’s a stunning wee gun for under a third of the new cost! I am biased mind you as I really like Arrieta and Spanish Sidelocks in general 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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