Steel 28 bore

[Fargo]

Can’t see the post but it wasn’t Fiocchi but Mary Arm

28b 

20g steel mix of 5&6’s

21.90€ per 25

[Peter Harris]

I have just read a post from Westley Richards indicating that in their opinion not enough is known about steel shot damaging shotgun barrels .

They therefore recommend using lead whenever possible or Bismuth (at £1.29 per shot ) to save your barrels .

THERE IS NO REASON TO BAN LEAD  in my opinion.

[Fargo]

3 hours ago, Peter Harris said:

I have just read a post from Westley Richards indicating that in their opinion not enough is known about steel shot damaging shotgun barrels .

They therefore recommend using lead whenever possible or Bismuth (at £1.29 per shot ) to save your barrels .

THERE IS NO REASON TO BAN LEAD  in my opinion.

Agree but I have lot of danish friends who have used steel for 20 years and are happy at normal ranges and haven’t had any damage to modern shotgun barrels. 

[London Best]

18 minutes ago, Fargo said:

Agree but I have lot of danish friends who have used steel for 20 years and are happy at normal ranges and haven’t had any damage to modern shotgun barrels. 

Lots of us have used steel for duck/geese for 20 years, but were forced to use plastic wads. 
Now the wads are changing for “biodegradeable” we have to hope these keep the shot away from the bores as well as the plastic did. No problems with the trial box, but won’t be using them regularly until we legally have to.

[holloway]

4 hours ago, Peter Harris said:

I have just read a post from Westley Richards indicating that in their opinion not enough is known about steel shot damaging shotgun barrels .

They therefore recommend using lead whenever possible or Bismuth (at £1.29 per shot ) to save your barrels .

THERE IS NO REASON TO BAN LEAD  in my opinion.

 I wonder if Wesley Richard’s had considered consulting there American associates and tapping into there experience and evidence going back to the mid 1970 s when they started using steel over there.

 They need to wake up and get with the times a flagship company with their heads in the sand.

1 hour ago, Fargo said:

Agree but I have lot of danish friends who have used steel for 20 years and are happy at normal ranges and haven’t had any damage to modern shotgun barrels. 

This .

 

[Fargo]

2 hours ago, London Best said:

Lots of us have used steel for duck/geese for 20 years, but were forced to use plastic wads. 
Now the wads are changing for “biodegradeable” we have to hope these keep the shot away from the bores as well as the plastic did. No problems with the trial box, but won’t be using them regularly until we legally have to.

Do the same job I am sure but I also won’t use it unless I have to 

[Peter Harris]

It will be very interesting to see how Bio-wads fare in the future with steel shot . Who will supply the steel shot ? It is already more expensive than Lead .

A recent seminar in Spain cast doubts on the availability , effectiveness of Steel shot and also questioned why Lead needs to be banned.

[Peter Harris]

No one ever seems to comment about plastic wads in the environment?

[Fargo]

21 minutes ago, Peter Harris said:

No one ever seems to comment about plastic wads in the environment?

No one really cares that’s why. It’s all about controlling and restricting. Same as plastic in supermarkets and the waste plastic we have in our waterways and ditches.  If people higher up really cared about the environment they’d do something about it but they don’t it’s all about money and / or control

[Poor Shot]

3 hours ago, Peter Harris said:

No one ever seems to comment about plastic wads in the environment?

That's next on the agenda.. Once we are all stuck using steel the complaint will shift to the millions of pieces of plastic being shot about the countryside. We'll then have to shift to bio degradable wads only and we'll all take another shafting in cartridge cost as a result.

There is plenty of noise about plastic pollution at the moment but at least we have a choice whether we use plastic, fibre or bio degradable wads.

When we have no choice and are trapped using steel with bio wads then we'll see even basic cartridges for clay target shooting reaching over £500 a thousand and most will give up.

It's the thousand cuts and unintended consequences that those who wish to see all forms of shooting disappear happen.

Edited July 31, 2023 by Poor Shot

[Fargo]

52 minutes ago, Poor Shot said:

That's next on the agenda.. Once we are all stuck using steel the complaint will shift to the millions of pieces of plastic being shot about the countryside. We'll then have to shift to bio degradable wads only and we'll all take another shafting in cartridge cost as a result.

There is plenty of noise about plastic pollution at the moment but at least we have a choice whether we use plastic, fibre or bio degradable wads.

When we have no choice and are trapped using steel with bio wads then we'll see even basic cartridges for clay target shooting reaching over £500 a thousand and most will give up.

It's the thousand cuts and unintended consequences that those who wish to see all forms of shooting happen.

100%
Look at steel bio wads now for game shooting £500+ /1000

 

[Gas seal]

Hi Fargo thanks for the information on your steel cartridges. The wads I use to reload will hold 15 grams of steel number 6 shot or 19 grams of steel 6 shot.(I weighed the shot. )  I also use 20 gauge steel cartridges with bio wads the price is now about £400 per 1000. Bio wads for non lead cartridges have been used for about 20 years in reloaded and commercial cartridges. The cost of shooting is going up for all of us.

[holloway]

Just a Devils advocate question but how many people are trying to phase out their own use of plastic wads ? ,I imagine few of us would walk through the country side throwing 50 -100 pieces of single use plastic onto the floor if you saw someone else doing it you would be unimpressed.
   It looks like we will be banned from using lead sooner rather than later so many will be forced to comply ,,I think the spewing of single use plastics is a worse sin ,and there’s no doubt in my mind that someone will try to ban it eventually, I know many claypigeon clubs and game shoots have banned plastic wads already usually a condition demanded from the landowners.

  Bio wads in steel shot cartridges are becoming more available for every type of shooting ,common sense tells us we should all be switching to these cartridges doesn’t it ? If a a total ban on plastic wads did come in it would end home loading of non toxic shot cartridges overnight ,(except Bismuth) ,TSS shot for instance sometimes has up to 3 non perishable items per cartridge all spewed into the country side ,

.I suppose what I am clumsily trying to say is that if we don’t want unpopular laws forced upon our sport we probably need to clean up our own act beforehand someone else does.

[HantsRob]

On 26/07/2023 at 12:21, Fargo said:

Agree but I have lot of danish friends who have used steel for 20 years and are happy at normal ranges and haven’t had any damage to modern shotgun barrels. 

Do the Danes have the same proofing rules as the UK? That would be my only query with the above. I fully agree they've shot it a long time quite happily.

 

21 hours ago, Peter Harris said:

No one ever seems to comment about plastic wads in the environment?

It's my thought that the fight was plaswad or lead, and lead won first. But, that doesn't mean there won't be the next argument after.

Plaswad used to cost more than fibre but that trend has certainly swapped, although I am seeing some friends voluntarily move to fibre as they believe it keeps their barrels cleaner. Some keep with plastic for a better pattern. Some, just go for the cheapest.

[Fargo]

32 minutes ago, HantsRob said:

Do the Danes have the same proofing rules as the UK? That would be my only query with the above. I fully agree they've shot it a long time quite happily.

 

It's my thought that the fight was plaswad or lead, and lead won first. But, that doesn't mean there won't be the next argument after.

Plaswad used to cost more than fibre but that trend has certainly swapped, although I am seeing some friends voluntarily move to fibre as they believe it keeps their barrels cleaner. Some keep with plastic for a better pattern. Some, just go for the cheapest.

No the Dane’s don’t listen to CIP rules which is British I believe and restricts what we can and can’t do. They use steel with tight chokes and use it fast for best effect , 1550fps with a 28-32g load and they say it kills well.

Best steel I used was John Forsey guns 28g 3” 1600fps 5’s 

[Fargo]

1 hour ago, holloway said:

Just a Devils advocate question but how many people are trying to phase out their own use of plastic wads ? ,I imagine few of us would walk through the country side throwing 50 -100 pieces of single use plastic onto the floor if you saw someone else doing it you would be unimpressed.
   It looks like we will be banned from using lead sooner rather than later so many will be forced to comply ,,I think the spewing of single use plastics is a worse sin ,and there’s no doubt in my mind that someone will try to ban it eventually, I know many claypigeon clubs and game shoots have banned plastic wads already usually a condition demanded from the landowners.

  Bio wads in steel shot cartridges are becoming more available for every type of shooting ,common sense tells us we should all be switching to these cartridges doesn’t it ? If a a total ban on plastic wads did come in it would end home loading of non toxic shot cartridges overnight ,(except Bismuth) ,TSS shot for instance sometimes has up to 3 non perishable items per cartridge all spewed into the country side ,

.I suppose what I am clumsily trying to say is that if we don’t want unpopular laws forced upon our sport we probably need to clean up our own act beforehand someone else does.

Standard plastic is horrid and I hate using it but sometimes I have too.

The bio wads some of them take years to break down and have been coloured green so aren’t seen. 
 

We are the only country in europe with a big game shooting presence that pushes for fibre and thankfully most makers are fibre only now in game loads. Rest of Europe is a different story altogether and where I’ve shot before is all plastic - France, Hungary, CZ, Spain. 

[Peter Harris]

I watched a film today about making chrystal glass tumblers .

The glass used to make chrystal glassware uses TONS of red lead .

Will glass be banned next ?

[Gas seal]

Hi Holloway I’ve been phasing out plastic wads in 28 gauge for about four years now. I made my own wads for non lead cartridges. I have loaded non lead in 12 gauge with commercial cardboard wads and my friend made cardboard wads for his muzzle loader for bismuth shot. Single use plastic will soon be a thing of the past along with lead shotgun pellets. None lead cartridges are available in other countries for all gauge of shotguns and all gauge of shotguns are available in steel proof. Cartridges are going to cost more including reloading if some shooters won’t shoot steel because it will damage the gun barrel or it’s not good enough the alternative cartridges will cost them a lot more. 

[holloway]

1 hour ago, Gas seal said:

Hi Holloway I’ve been phasing out plastic wads in 28 gauge for about four years now. I made my own wads for non lead cartridges. I have loaded non lead in 12 gauge with commercial cardboard wads and my friend made cardboard wads for his muzzle loader for bismuth shot. Single use plastic will soon be a thing of the past along with lead shotgun pellets. None lead cartridges are available in other countries for all gauge of shotguns and all gauge of shotguns are available in steel proof. Cartridges are going to cost more including reloading if some shooters won’t shoot steel because it will damage the gun barrel or it’s not good enough the alternative cartridges will cost them a lot more. 

I think that’s brilliant, shows you’re taking responsibility do you not think we should all be doing that ? I could manage I think as there is now an eco wad goose cartridge I think Gamebore make them.The rest I sorted ages ago.

[London Best]

For my game shooting I just simply will not buy plastic wad cartridges. 
For my now very occasional duck/goose forays I have been forced to use plastic for over 20 years. Fortunately, we can now buy biodegradable wads with steel for wildfowl.

[Dave at kelton]

On 01/08/2023 at 07:25, holloway said:

Just a Devils advocate question but how many people are trying to phase out their own use of plastic wads ? ,I imagine few of us would walk through the country side throwing 50 -100 pieces of single use plastic onto the floor if you saw someone else doing it you would be unimpressed.
   It looks like we will be banned from using lead sooner rather than later so many will be forced to comply ,,I think the spewing of single use plastics is a worse sin ,and there’s no doubt in my mind that someone will try to ban it eventually, I know many claypigeon clubs and game shoots have banned plastic wads already usually a condition demanded from the landowners.

  Bio wads in steel shot cartridges are becoming more available for every type of shooting ,common sense tells us we should all be switching to these cartridges doesn’t it ? If a a total ban on plastic wads did come in it would end home loading of non toxic shot cartridges overnight ,(except Bismuth) ,TSS shot for instance sometimes has up to 3 non perishable items per cartridge all spewed into the country side ,

.I suppose what I am clumsily trying to say is that if we don’t want unpopular laws forced upon our sport we probably need to clean up our own act beforehand someone else does.

I started on this a couple of years ago for wildfowling cartridges in 8 & 10 using Clay Game fibre cups. For obturation I use Grahame Deakin's cup card making kit so I have inverted cups over the powder like the old Winchester wildfowl loads. Seems to work fine. Need to do the same in 12 next. Everywhere else I just use fibre with lead or biodegradable.