Oil Boiler Ban

[discobob]

1 hour ago, McSpredder said:

At present most UK residents have more than one energy source for heating and cooking.   If electricity is cut off, they use mains gas, bottled gas, oil, coal, wood, etc, but all of those are to be discouraged, possibly banned, in the near future.   Here are three questions to ask of sitting or would-be MPs.

Has your party published any recommendations for heating and cooking in the event of a prolonged electricity power cut?

Has your party made any estimate of the numbers that might die from hypothermia in the event of a power cut lasting several days, as many thousands of people experienced during Storm Arwen?

Does your party expect prolonged electricity power cuts to be become more frequent in future as a result of climate change?

There is one problem with your argument - that at the loss of power the only thing that would keep working would be a gas hob - your boilers (oil or gas if they are newish) will need power to run them....

I am totally on your side - just playing devils advocate

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, McSpredder said:

At present most UK residents have more than one energy source for heating and cooking.   If electricity is cut off, they use mains gas, bottled gas, oil, coal, wood, etc, but all of those are to be discouraged, possibly banned, in the near future.

I live in a very rural area - small village of around 100 houses.  30 years ago we had maybe 70 houses, and a poor electricity supply and frequent (10+ a year) long power cuts.  Like most people I had gas heating (including 3 x gas fires)

Since privatisation, the whole supply has been reworked and proper investment made - and we now often go a year of more with no power interruptions at all.  However, now with changing usage (30 more houses, electric cars now common, heatpumps on the horizon - there is one installed and two more that were fitted (a while back) were later removed and replaced by gas) the supply is limited and many people can't get the greater capacity supplies they want - so I retain my gas fires (which are independant of electricity).

I'm not sure what the village power demands are but I'm told (by Western Power) we are near the limits of what the system can manage for electricity.  I'm guessing that there are virtually all of the houses on oil or gas for heating, probably an average of say 15KW boilers, so that is a demand of 1500 KW that would need to be catered for to go all electric - and that's before car chargers are added.  That would represent around doubling of the electrical demand ............ which I can't see happening - either in transmission capacity or generation capacity

As has been pointed out by @udderlyoffroad above, currently (i.e. as I write this) - wind contributes very very little;

[Stonepark]

Whilst wind hasn't done much today, and more expensive gas has been pressed into service, over the last 6 months the only times electricity has been inexpensive (when purchased by electricity suppliers) has been when the sun has been shining or the wind blowing.

Likewise with UK gas price going back up and gas becoming more expensive we have likely hit the summer lows and prices will be increasing through Autumn and Winter again.

 

 

[McSpredder]

3 hours ago, discobob said:

There is one problem with your argument - that at the loss of power the only thing that would keep working would be a gas hob - your boilers (oil or gas if they are newish) will need power to run them....

You are of course absolutely correct where modern central heating systems are concerned – they rely on electricity for controls, circulation pumps, etc.

Our previous home had a CH system, but there was also a simple gas fire in the living room  -  warmed up a big room in five minutes if we came home to a freezing cold house in the middle of winter, no electrics involved, and it could be used to make toast if you wanted a hot snack.   That gas fire had been installed sometime before 1980, never needed any repairs, and it was still working perfectly when we moved out in 2018.  

I was going to say “They don’t make ‘em like that nowadays”, but it seems that Flavel are still producing them at Stoke-on-Trent.   Not sure whether you can still buy a toasting fork, probably outlawed by now, because one of those might be considered even more dangerous than a Swiss army knife.

[serrac]

6 hours ago, discobob said:

There is one problem with your argument - that at the loss of power the only thing that would keep working would be a gas hob - your boilers (oil or gas if they are newish) will need power to run them....

I am totally on your side - just playing devils advocate

The power demand of the boiler and pump is, I think, fairly low and could be run off a small generator, or even for a while from a 12v battery and inverter.
I'm sure people would start coming up with all sorts of innovative solutions if power cuts became a regular thing.
Can't see that working with a heat pump...

I wouldn't mind seeing the return of the paraffin heaters we had when I was a child - lovely warm smelling fumes in the bathroom on bath night 🥴
Ah wait, paraffin is evil dinosaur juice too - won't be allowed that either.

[old man]

15 hours ago, McSpredder said:

You are of course absolutely correct where modern central heating systems are concerned – they rely on electricity for controls, circulation pumps, etc.

Our previous home had a CH system, but there was also a simple gas fire in the living room  -  warmed up a big room in five minutes if we came home to a freezing cold house in the middle of winter, no electrics involved, and it could be used to make toast if you wanted a hot snack.   That gas fire had been installed sometime before 1980, never needed any repairs, and it was still working perfectly when we moved out in 2018.  

I was going to say “They don’t make ‘em like that nowadays”, but it seems that Flavel are still producing them at Stoke-on-Trent.   Not sure whether you can still buy a toasting fork, probably outlawed by now, because one of those might be considered even more dangerous than a Swiss army knife.

Possession of a toasting fork requires a special licence now due to being constructed with 4 dangerous pointy things.

[Wilts#Dave]

19 hours ago, McSpredder said:

You are of course absolutely correct where modern central heating systems are concerned – they rely on electricity for controls, circulation pumps, etc.

Our previous home had a CH system, but there was also a simple gas fire in the living room  -  warmed up a big room in five minutes if we came home to a freezing cold house in the middle of winter, no electrics involved, and it could be used to make toast if you wanted a hot snack.   That gas fire had been installed sometime before 1980, never needed any repairs, and it was still working perfectly when we moved out in 2018.  

I was going to say “They don’t make ‘em like that nowadays”, but it seems that Flavel are still producing them at Stoke-on-Trent.   Not sure whether you can still buy a toasting fork, probably outlawed by now, because one of those might be considered even more dangerous than a Swiss army knife.

Ahh, those fires whilst considered very out of date and old fashioned don’t half do the job! My parents always had one when we were kids, and I had a slightly nicer looking one in my first house built in the mid 90’s…..as you say will heat a whole room up in 5 minutes, couldn’t stand to keep it on high for long! 
Perfect should there be power cuts. 

[discobob]

we had similar in quarters - in our first one, whenever we put it on we always ended up falling asleep and would wake up like we had just been on a 24 hour bender. No detectors back in those days...

[TOPGUN749]

20 hours ago, McSpredder said:

You are of course absolutely correct where modern central heating systems are concerned – they rely on electricity for controls, circulation pumps, etc.

Our previous home had a CH system, but there was also a simple gas fire in the living room  -  warmed up a big room in five minutes if we came home to a freezing cold house in the middle of winter, no electrics involved, and it could be used to make toast if you wanted a hot snack.   That gas fire had been installed sometime before 1980, never needed any repairs, and it was still working perfectly when we moved out in 2018.  

I was going to say “They don’t make ‘em like that nowadays”, but it seems that Flavel are still producing them at Stoke-on-Trent.   Not sure whether you can still buy a toasting fork, probably outlawed by now, because one of those might be considered even more dangerous than a Swiss army knife.

I still have a similar one today,was installed when the house was built in 1980,still works fine,costs 80p an hour on full.