Welsh (and potential future UK) game bird licensing and grey partridges

[PeterHenry]

The title says it all really - but it was a bit of a toss up between this section and the gamekeepers one.

Being proactive for a moment, instead of dwelling on the worse possible of all outcomes - what do pepole think about the possibility of a greater number of grey partridge shoots in the future?

My experience tends to be that water flows down the easiest path, and that once it meets resistance its find another way. Greys are obviously one of our truly native game birds, but by all accounts are a pain to rear in any great numbers. I wonder if with what is / may be looming on the horizon re non native game bird releases, more pepole and more effort being put into the artificial rearing of greys might be the way forward?

 

[London Best]

I think you have certainly hit the nail on the head about the difficulty of rearing Grey Partridge. Had it been easy (easier) then the Redlegs would never have even been considered as a preference for commercial driven shooting. 
Whether your idea regarding Greys being indigenous and, possibly, hopefully the answer to the legislation preventing the release of non-native species is an interesting one.

[Poor Shot]

Same question but replace grey partridge with Mallard ducks? 

Will we see a lot of traditional shoots move over (more than current) to the rearing and release of Mallard in place of Pheasant and Red Legged Partridge? 

I believe that the Mallard that exist wild in the UK and the Mallard that are reared are of the same species and therefore not a non-native species? 

They are also far easier and cheaper to rear and easier to hold in an area given they will often keep returning to their 'home pond' despite intense shooting pressure. 

 

[jall25]

1 hour ago, Poor Shot said:

Same question but replace grey partridge with Mallard ducks? 

Will we see a lot of traditional shoots move over (more than current) to the rearing and release of Mallard in place of Pheasant and Red Legged Partridge? 

I believe that the Mallard that exist wild in the UK and the Mallard that are reared are of the same species and therefore not a non-native species? 

They are also far easier and cheaper to rear and easier to hold in an area given they will often keep returning to their 'home pond' despite intense shooting pressure. 

 

 

And yet with so little effort - getting wild ones to breed and stay is really so easy 

We must try harder

 

I think the thing with greys is the fact they flush in coveys too - and are so hard to push over guns

[London Best]

13 minutes ago, jall25 said:

I think the thing with greys is the fact they flush in coveys too - and are so hard to push over guns

They are so much better sport and harder to shoot as the covey starbursts on seeing the guns.

I, and many other discerning sportsmen, will not shoot reared Mallard. They are the worst of sport.

[Scully]

1 minute ago, London Best said:

 

I, and many other discerning sportsmen, will not shoot reared Mallard. They are the worst of sport.

This. Not keen on driven duck shoots at all. 

[Poor Shot]

4 minutes ago, London Best said:

They are so much better sport and harder to shoot as the covey starbursts on seeing the guns.

I, and many other discerning sportsmen, will not shoot reared Mallard. They are the worst of sport.

I don't want to come over all traditional but I kind of agree. 

You can quite often get 3-4 shots at the same bird as it circles trying to get back to it's pond. It's not exactly sporting and frankly, boring. 

I'd much rather flighting wild birds into a fed pond or shooting them over the marsh. The latter especially is a lot more difficult and requires a lot more fieldcraft than being stood in field shooting at pet ducks. 

[Scully]

52 minutes ago, Poor Shot said:

 

I'd much rather flighting wild birds into a fed pond or shooting them over the marsh. The latter especially is a lot more difficult and requires a lot more fieldcraft than being stood in field shooting at pet ducks. 

This. My experience of reared duck shooting is as follows: kids and dogs in a pond trying to get reluctant ducks into the air, ducks that if they do decide to get up, do so and then disappear, ducks that fly round and round in circles just above head height, and those which fly at stratospheric heights. 
One shoot I know once took to rounding them up at the seasons end and head shooting them with a .22 so they could get some money back. 

[London Best]

32 minutes ago, Scully said:

This. My experience of reared duck shooting is as follows: kids and dogs in a pond trying to get reluctant ducks into the air, ducks that if they do decide to get up, do so and then disappear, ducks that fly round and round in circles just above head height, and those which fly at stratospheric heights. 
One shoot I know once took to rounding them up at the seasons end and head shooting them with a .22 so they could get some money back. 

My opinion, for the last thirty years or so, has been that if anything is going to get shooting banned it will be reared duck.

[matone]

I don`t think rearing is the issue with Greys as much of trying to drive the little blighters and make any sort of bag !!! As for reared duck,well ,least said the better......

Edited December 18, 2023 by matone

[jall25]

35 minutes ago, London Best said:

My opinion, for the last thirty years or so, has been that if anything is going to get shooting banned it will be reared duck.

 

Totally agree

Many years ago - some chaps in our syndicate were pushing for us to release ducks on our lake over and over again 

I said to them - good luck in your new syndicate - goodbye 

Ducks should be savoured at first or last light as they arrow across the skyline - awesome - wild - move at the wrong time and they flare away - a bit like pigeon really 

[London Best]

2 hours ago, jall25 said:

 

Totally agree

Many years ago - some chaps in our syndicate were pushing for us to release ducks on our lake over and over again 

I said to them - good luck in your new syndicate - goodbye 

Ducks should be savoured at first or last light as they arrow across the skyline - awesome - wild - move at the wrong time and they flare away - a bit like pigeon really 

I have seen some terrible things with reared duck. The three worst which spring to mind being a beater in a boat rowing amongst them and beating the water with an oar to try and encourage flight, and two beaters stationed opposite sides of a pond towing a rope along the surface, pulling the ducks up to the dam at the end. Then there was the shoot which timed the “drive” with a stopwatch (5 minutes at the ducks). Once the birds were flushed all the beater’s encircled the pond with flags to try and prevent the unfortunate birds from landing again until the stopwatch man called time.

[jall25]

2 hours ago, London Best said:

I have seen some terrible things with reared duck. The three worst which spring to mind being a beater in a boat rowing amongst them and beating the water with an oar to try and encourage flight, and two beaters stationed opposite sides of a pond towing a rope along the surface, pulling the ducks up to the dam at the end. Then there was the shoot which timed the “drive” with a stopwatch (5 minutes at the ducks). Once the birds were flushed all the beater’s encircled the pond with flags to try and prevent the unfortunate birds from landing again until the stopwatch man called time.

YUCK 

[PeterHenry]

On 18/12/2023 at 13:08, London Best said:

I think you have certainly hit the nail on the head about the difficulty of rearing Grey Partridge. Had it been easy (easier) then the Redlegs would never have even been considered as a preference for commercial driven shooting. 
Whether your idea regarding Greys being indigenous and, possibly, hopefully the answer to the legislation preventing the release of non-native species is an interesting one.

👍 - hopefully, it would be a case of shooting proving its credentials. We all know a lot of conservation work goes into shooting. If events conspire against our sport, it would be wonderful to think we could divert to an outcome like this.

On 18/12/2023 at 13:20, Poor Shot said:

Same question but replace grey partridge with Mallard ducks? 

Will we see a lot of traditional shoots move over (more than current) to the rearing and release of Mallard in place of Pheasant and Red Legged Partridge? 

I believe that the Mallard that exist wild in the UK and the Mallard that are reared are of the same species and therefore not a non-native species? 

They are also far easier and cheaper to rear and easier to hold in an area given they will often keep returning to their 'home pond' despite intense shooting pressure. 

 

Hopefully not, for the reasons others have outlined below. I don't mind a duck drive on a shoot - my syndicate puts a few down. But i'm sure we've all seen shoots where its less that ideal for one rrason or more.

On 18/12/2023 at 14:26, jall25 said:

 

And yet with so little effort - getting wild ones to breed and stay is really so easy 

We must try harder

 

I think the thing with greys is the fact they flush in coveys too - and are so hard to push over guns

That's interesting to hear - I've never seen one on our land. Despite hearing that there were plenty about in the 80s / 90s.

On 18/12/2023 at 14:42, London Best said:

They are so much better sport and harder to shoot as the covey starbursts on seeing the guns.

I, and many other discerning sportsmen, will not shoot reared Mallard. They are the worst of sport.

👍

On 18/12/2023 at 14:47, Scully said:

This. Not keen on driven duck shoots at all. 

👍

On 18/12/2023 at 14:50, Poor Shot said:

I don't want to come over all traditional but I kind of agree. 

You can quite often get 3-4 shots at the same bird as it circles trying to get back to it's pond. It's not exactly sporting and frankly, boring. 

I'd much rather flighting wild birds into a fed pond or shooting them over the marsh. The latter especially is a lot more difficult and requires a lot more fieldcraft than being stood in field shooting at pet ducks. 

👍

On 18/12/2023 at 15:48, Scully said:

This. My experience of reared duck shooting is as follows: kids and dogs in a pond trying to get reluctant ducks into the air, ducks that if they do decide to get up, do so and then disappear, ducks that fly round and round in circles just above head height, and those which fly at stratospheric heights. 
One shoot I know once took to rounding them up at the seasons end and head shooting them with a .22 so they could get some money back. 

👍

On 18/12/2023 at 16:22, London Best said:

My opinion, for the last thirty years or so, has been that if anything is going to get shooting banned it will be reared duck.

👍

On 18/12/2023 at 16:29, matone said:

I don`t think rearing is the issue with Greys as much of trying to drive the little blighters and make any sort of bag !!! As for reared duck,well ,least said the better......

👍

On 18/12/2023 at 16:59, jall25 said:

 

Totally agree

Many years ago - some chaps in our syndicate were pushing for us to release ducks on our lake over and over again 

I said to them - good luck in your new syndicate - goodbye 

Ducks should be savoured at first or last light as they arrow across the skyline - awesome - wild - move at the wrong time and they flare away - a bit like pigeon really 

👍

On 18/12/2023 at 19:47, London Best said:

I have seen some terrible things with reared duck. The three worst which spring to mind being a beater in a boat rowing amongst them and beating the water with an oar to try and encourage flight, and two beaters stationed opposite sides of a pond towing a rope along the surface, pulling the ducks up to the dam at the end. Then there was the shoot which timed the “drive” with a stopwatch (5 minutes at the ducks). Once the birds were flushed all the beater’s encircled the pond with flags to try and prevent the unfortunate birds from landing again until the stopwatch man called time.

👍

On 18/12/2023 at 22:07, jall25 said:

YUCK 

👍

[jall25]

On 20/12/2023 at 09:07, PeterHenry said:

👍 - hopefully, it would be a case of shooting proving its credentials. We all know a lot of conservation work goes into shooting. If events conspire against our sport, it would be wonderful to think we could divert to an outcome like this.

Hopefully not, for the reasons others have outlined below. I don't mind a duck drive on a shoot - my syndicate puts a few down. But i'm sure we've all seen shoots where its less that ideal for one rrason or more.

That's interesting to hear - I've never seen one on our land. Despite hearing that there were plenty about in the 80s / 90s.

👍

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The thing is with the grey - if you can get the habitat and the predator control - they are one of the birds that are capable of the biggest broods

[TIGHTCHOKE]

3 minutes ago, jall25 said:

The thing is with the grey - if you can get the habitat and the predator control - they are one of the birds that are capable of the biggest broods

Indeed, but who would invest time and money in such an uncertain shooting situation?

[jall25]

1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Indeed, but who would invest time and money in such an uncertain shooting situation?

With us much of it is done - its just a case of keeping on the predators 

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

3 minutes ago, jall25 said:

With us much of it is done - its just a case of keeping on the predators 

 

Well done, I hope it pays off.  

[jall25]

12 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Well done, I hope it pays off.  

See a large covey of greys most days now - but the song birds have gone through the roof 

Same for snipe - which we would only have ever seen one or two a year