marsh man Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 A few months ago my good friend and fellow P / W member Old Boggy very kindly gave me a bag of assorted cartridges , amongst the cartridges were 30 / 40 Black plastic cased Baikal's , I used 1000s of these in the 70s and early 80s and although a bit pokey they were cheap and done the job , well today I passed a couple of hours on a rape field that is in very poor condition and I had these ( freebies ) in my cartridge bag , so it was a good chance to see if they still were good enough to kill one or two Pigeons , well without going into all the minor details , they certainly were good enough to kill 11 Pigeons with some of them on the border line , not one failed to fire and if they didn't drop a Pigeon then it was down to me and not the cartridge , I must admit that the odd one took a little pushing into the breech but once fired they came out dead easy . So how many years would a reasonably stored cartridge last for , these could well be 50 years old , or even longer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 (edited) Recommended turnaround is supposedly five years? Yet I shot in the 1970s and later much ex-MOD .303 (obviously in brass cases) dated 1954 and 1955. I think with all things, plastic cases included, it depends on of they were stored in best possible conditions. That they seemed swollen may be that they have gotten moisture from internal condensation if such a thing is possible? Edited March 26 by enfieldspares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted March 26 Author Report Share Posted March 26 58 minutes ago, enfieldspares said: Recommended turnaround is supposedly five years? Yet I shot in the 1970s and later much ex-MOD .303 (obviously in brass cases) dated 1954 and 1955. I think with all things, plastic cases included, it depends on of they were stored in best possible conditions. That they seemed swollen may be that they have gotten moisture from internal condensation if such a thing is possible? THANKS for the information , I also used some last year that the ole game keeper gave me from where I worked , these were Red paper cases and had an arrow half way up the cartridge , I am not sure if these were ministry cartridges , or some left over from his his Rabbit clearance days , whatever they were they still done what they were made to do and although paper cases they were still in good condition . MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 100 year old cartridges usually work just as they should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted March 27 Author Report Share Posted March 27 32 minutes ago, London Best said: 100 year old cartridges usually work just as they should. That is remarkable , I have got a 100+ year old gun that can quite happily use them up , the only thing that haven't reached that milestone is the owner , I very much doubt if I reach the ( ton ) I will be in the same good nick as my faithful gun , in fact I don't doubt it , I know it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fargo Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 We used some 70’s Grand Prix 7’s once on cock pheasants end of season walked up with spaniels so very close and we’re terrible. No power at all. Maybe powder had gone off but rest on bonfire and used modern Grand Prix 6 and 100% times better in the afternoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wylye Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 I have found that if cartridges get damp in storage, despite drying them out as best you can - airing cupboard etc. they do not perform as they should and leave massive amounts of unburnt powder in the barrels. Old cartridges aren’t a problem it’s the storage conditions that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fargo Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 8 minutes ago, Wylye said: I have found that if cartridges get damp in storage, despite drying them out as best you can - airing cupboard etc. they do not perform as they should and leave massive amounts of unburnt powder in the barrels. Old cartridges aren’t a problem it’s the storage conditions that matter. I think that was what was wrong with these. Lot of powder left in barrels and had been in an outbuilding for a decade or more. No rust on them though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wylye Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 I expect the powder will easily absorb moisture. Funny how it’s not the same when it’s dried out though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 14 minutes ago, Fargo said: I think that was what was wrong with these. Lot of powder left in barrels and had been in an outbuilding for a decade or more. No rust on them though. What kind of a numpty would store cartridges in an outbuilding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 I've got some 'Record #4 (Baikal) cartridges that I bought back in the mid 1970's. They have been stored and kept dry in an even temperature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fargo Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 10 minutes ago, London Best said: What kind of a numpty would store cartridges in an outbuilding? Lots stupidly Luckily I don’t have use such rubbish anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 At the end of January last season I took a load of mixed cartridges on a walked up day. I had nine old paper cased Baikal Records from a box of ten. I have no idea where they came from. I certainly have not bought any since the 1970’s. The nine Baikals produced six pheasants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted March 27 Author Report Share Posted March 27 3 hours ago, London Best said: At the end of January last season I took a load of mixed cartridges on a walked up day. I had nine old paper cased Baikal Records from a box of ten. I have no idea where they came from. I certainly have not bought any since the 1970’s. The nine Baikals produced six pheasants We have had several threads on the Baikal cartridges in the past and they normally end up having light jokes made about them such as setting light to stubble fields and lighting the sky up at night , at the time they were as good as most cartridges on the market and were selling at a fraction of the price , the cheapest we bought them at were £40 a 1000 , this was when Richard's Style cartridges were selling for £50 a 1000 and a tenner was hell of a lot of difference in that day and age . Once you got used to them you could stop most , if not all the birds that were on the list including geese , this was because they had a little of every shot size known to man inside the cartridge so you never had to worry about having the right size shot , mind you , it didn't always work out where the odd BB would hit the goose and the number 8 would find it's way into the Snipe you fired at but it was all good fun at the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, marsh man said: We have had several threads on the Baikal cartridges in the past and they normally end up having light jokes made about them such as setting light to stubble fields and lighting the sky up at night , at the time they were as good as most cartridges on the market and were selling at a fraction of the price , the cheapest we bought them at were £40 a 1000 , this was when Richard's Style cartridges were selling for £50 a 1000 and a tenner was hell of a lot of difference in that day and age . Once you got used to them you could stop most , if not all the birds that were on the list including geese , this was because they had a little of every shot size known to man inside the cartridge so you never had to worry about having the right size shot , mind you , it didn't always work out where the odd BB would hit the goose and the number 8 would find it's way into the Snipe you fired at but it was all good fun at the time I used thousands on pigeon, duck and game. I never opened one up to see what was inside. I never felt the need as they seemed devastatingly effective (if I did my bit!). I only ever bought ones labelled No.7’s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 My, what an interesting thread....................................... Don't store cartridges inappropriately. Just shoot them, they will go bang and kill things. Should anyone have a large quantity of cartridges that they feel may be not up to the job, I will happily collect them and see if each one works........................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCB56 Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 My problem with old or new cartridges is can miss with both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 14 minutes ago, RCB56 said: My problem with old or new cartridges is can miss with both. At least you are using them.......................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted March 27 Report Share Posted March 27 I have some old paper cased 410 cartridges over 50 years old and they still go bang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted March 27 Author Report Share Posted March 27 33 minutes ago, London Best said: I used thousands on pigeon, duck and game. I never opened one up to see what was inside. I never felt the need as they seemed devastatingly effective (if I did my bit!). I only ever bought ones labelled No.7’s. I did once have a box of Baikal shells that contained a single slug , half of it was protruding above the rolled rim , I never fired one , I gave them all away to the guys that collect those sort of things , I didn't fancy one of them getting stuck on my full choke wildfowling gun if the ole barrel was a bit rusty 29 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: My, what an interesting thread....................................... Don't store cartridges inappropriately. Just shoot them, they will go bang and kill things. Should anyone have a large quantity of cartridges that they feel may be not up to the job, I will happily collect them and see if each one works........................ I always thought all cartridges were up for the job as nobody make a bad cartridge , well that was until I bought some Italian cartridges off Cisel Frost who used to own Frostgame at Brockdish , at the time Eley had a fire or something at there factory and cartridges were hard to come by , with Cisel being all about where earning a few bob was concerned he sent a container of Pigeons to Italy and bought back a load of cartridges , these were fairly priced so I swapped some Pigeons for a couple of slabs of these Italian shells , these without a shadow of doubt were the worst cartridges I had ever used , I doubt if the shot even reached a Pigeon over decoys let alone doing it any harm , when you fired one and opened the breech you could see all little bits of unburnt powder and to be honest they were next to useless . Pity I didn't have a couple of slabs as we could have done a deal and I would had been very happy if you proved me wrong , although I am pretty sure they would had brought your averages down to our level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted April 1 Report Share Posted April 1 On 27/03/2024 at 20:28, marsh man said: I did once have a box of Baikal shells that contained a single slug , half of it was protruding above the rolled rim , I never fired one , I gave them all away to the guys that collect those sort of things , I didn't fancy one of them getting stuck on my full choke wildfowling gun if the ole barrel was a bit rusty I always thought all cartridges were up for the job as nobody make a bad cartridge , well that was until I bought some Italian cartridges off Cisel Frost who used to own Frostgame at Brockdish , at the time Eley had a fire or something at there factory and cartridges were hard to come by , with Cisel being all about where earning a few bob was concerned he sent a container of Pigeons to Italy and bought back a load of cartridges , these were fairly priced so I swapped some Pigeons for a couple of slabs of these Italian shells , these without a shadow of doubt were the worst cartridges I had ever used , I doubt if the shot even reached a Pigeon over decoys let alone doing it any harm , when you fired one and opened the breech you could see all little bits of unburnt powder and to be honest they were next to useless . Pity I didn't have a couple of slabs as we could have done a deal and I would had been very happy if you proved me wrong , although I am pretty sure they would had brought your averages down to our level Not these days, but back then some boxes would have 5 or even 7 with more lead and less powder than was correct, or the other way round. In the "OLD Days" hand loading by children still went on over-seas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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