BASC update on voluntary transition away from lead shot and and single-use plastics for live quarry

[Konor]

5 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

The truth is:

On 20/04/2024 at 11:46, Konor said:

I'm out. 

Unfortunately for you I am principled enough to challenge any distortion of the truth  and I suggest that by stating

“When I receive straight forward questions I answer them “ that you are guilty of a distortion of the truth and I have given you two examples to illustrate that I’m sure there will be a few more. If you cannot be trusted to be fair/truthful while posting on this forum why should anyone put any trust in the accuracy of your posts ?
Could you answer that straight forward question ?

[Konor]

On 20/04/2024 at 10:49, Konor said:

No science no change , where is the specific scientific facts that have arisen since BASC made the statement that there should be no change resulting in the prohibition of lead without irrefutable evidence to drive that change Is the driver of the change in approach a result of new scientific evidence or is it politically driven. 

No question mark admittedly but yet another straight forward question that you failed to answer. I’d venture that you have probably answered none of my straightforward questions.

Why then do you state that you have answered all straightforward questions ?

[Conor O'Gorman]

3 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

🤣😂 Don't you believe me (again) Conor ? Do you think I'd just make it up?

https://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/433342-do-you-trust-basc/page/13/#comments

I would have thought you wouldnt want to revisit that highly embarrassing thread.

Thank you for the link. People will make their own judgements. The exact quote you have asked me to comment on from more than a year ago in that thread a year later for reasons only known to yourself is as follows:

On 22/03/2023 at 20:33, Conor O'Gorman said:

@12gauge82unfortunately that is the intention of some (not all) of the ex-BASC members with various real or perceived axes to grind from the past posting in this thread. It is divisive and hateful stuff and very wrong in my book at the very time when we all need to get behind all the shooting organisations. However, there are some BASC members posting in this thread challenging the antis (and let's be clear - some of the trolls may shoot but they are antis nonetheless in what they are doing) here and elsewhere and that is a positive from this thread and I hope more PW members that are BASC members come out and fight on this and other issues.

Your question in this thread is:

On 20/04/2024 at 13:30, Rewulf said:

Yet you thought this was OK?

Yes.

[Conor O'Gorman]

12 minutes ago, Konor said:

Unfortunately for you I am principled enough to challenge any distortion of the truth  and I suggest that by stating

“When I receive straight forward questions I answer them “ that you are guilty of a distortion of the truth and I have given you two examples to illustrate that I’m sure there will be a few more. If you cannot be trusted to be fair/truthful while posting on this forum why should anyone put any trust in the accuracy of your posts ?
Could you answer that straight forward question ?

Why did you state in this thread yesterday that "I am out" when you keep posting?

[Konor]

12 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Why did you state in this thread yesterday that "I am out" when you keep posting?

Because I didn’t realise at the time that you would go on to make false statements.

Why did you not answer any of my questions then stated that you answered all straightforward questions ?
Why do you continue to fail to answer the straightforward questions in my last few posts ?

Edited April 21 by Konor

[Rewulf]

5 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Why did you state in this thread yesterday that "I am out" when you keep posting?

Why did you state that you wanted members to be respectful (to you) yet it's proven time and time again that YOU are not?

[Konor]

Conor I fear your credibility has taken a nosedive,

Unfortunately I think that now would be an appropriate time to retire from posting on the forum.

Do you not think that under the circumstances an apology would be in order for knowingly making false statements ?

[Conor O'Gorman]

4 minutes ago, Konor said:

Conor I fear your credibility has taken a nosedive,

Unfortunately I think that now would be an appropriate time to retire from posting on the forum.

Do you not think that under the circumstances an apology would be in order for knowingly making false statements ?

Perhaps you might take up the offer already made of a phone call to discuss your concerns in detail? But it appears that you prefer to grandstand on this forum? You have not answered my question about raising your concerns about the future of lead ammunition at the next BASC AGM. 

[Konor]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

Yes, it's the one entitled 'Do you trust BASC '

I take no pleasure in stating that in light of recent statements made on this thread it would be as appropriate to question whether we can trust BASC representatives.

2 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Perhaps you might take up the offer already made of a phone call to discuss your concerns in detail? But it appears that you prefer to grandstand on this forum? You have not answered my question about raising your concerns about the future of lead ammunition at the next BASC AGM. 

Why don’t you just simply answer the questions, apologise for the untrue statements you have made and consider whether your credibility merits the respect you consider that you deserve ?
Another straightforward question.

[Konor]

Conor my best advice to you is  “If you find yourself in a hole stop digging”

Do you really think it appropriate to request a private phone call to “discuss my concerns” under the circumstances ?
I think an apology to the forum would be more appropriate.

My main concern is that I find you untrustworthy and no private phone call will undo the concerns that have led to that conclusion. Perhaps you should ponder on my posts and consider your position.

[Conor O'Gorman]

8 minutes ago, Konor said:

I take no pleasure in stating that in light of recent statements made on this thread it would be as appropriate to question whether we can trust BASC representatives.

Why don’t you just simply answer the questions, apologise for the untrue statements you have made and consider whether your credibility merits the respect you consider that you deserve ?
Another straightforward question.

My continued offer of a phone call remains open. Please pick up the phone and have a chat. Nothing prevents you from posting further after that (other than your own volition and owners/admin of this forum).

1 minute ago, Konor said:

Conor my best advice to you is  “If you find yourself in a hole stop digging”

Do you really think it appropriate to request a private phone call to “discuss my concerns” under the circumstances ?
I think an apology to the forum would be more appropriate.

My main concern is that I find you untrustworthy and no private phone call will undo the concerns that have led to that conclusion. Perhaps you should ponder on my posts and consider your position.

Again, you have not answered my question about raising your concerns about the future of lead ammunition at the next BASC AGM. Why are you evasive on this?

[Old farrier]

2 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

You might let Old Farrier make his own judgement. Why do you feel the need to intervene?

I think you may be copy and pasting text from another thread. Please could you provide a link to the thread for full context?

 

6 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Old farrier - the cited links doesn't give that information. It references some species, but lacks the promised detail.

Thanks for the info Gordon I have just finished reading it through and you are correct 

no specific shot size no specific bird species other than wildfowl why they are mentioned I don’t know as there is already something in place for there protection 

for Connor I don’t shop at Tesco and please don’t imply anything about the type of shooting that I participate in without asking or having no knowledge on it 

for the record I shoot clays until the game season then I shoot mostly driven days usually large ones 

I also belong to some wildfowl clubs enjoy the occasional day pigeon shooting along with shooting for field trials alongside weather and tides permitting getting out in my punt

not forgetting simo days corporate events and a passion for shooting small bore shotgun’s 

shall I go on ?

rimfire rifles for target shooting and vermin control 

centerfire rifles for shooting vermin 

larger bores for deer

and larger still for hunting plains game and big game in Africa 

 

I found your remarks ending with me buying food at Tesco rather then shooting it disappointing as I can’t see how more varied my shooting could be as for you suggesting that I was taking the moral high ground 🙄I take that was a little bit out of order on your part

or did you take it as a threat as the organisation that employs you wishes to adopt the high ground position and don’t want to be toppled 

 

 

 

[Konor]

9 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

My continued offer of a phone call remains open. Please pick up the phone and have a chat. Nothing prevents you from posting further after that (other than your own volition and owners/admin of this forum).

I see no purpose in phoning you Conor as I have already stated on a few occasions. The forum is a means of open debate and that is what you are choosing to engage with , if you are not willing to answer questions on the forum then what is the purpose of your participation.

Your failure to address the issues I have raised speaks volumes unfortunately. Hopefully you will learn from it but your track record indicates that is unlikely.

Incidentally your arrogance in failing to take responsibility for your previous posts speaks volumes about your character and the appropriateness of you taking any moral high ground on subjects under discussion on the forum.

Edited April 21 by Konor

[Gordon R]

Conor O'Gorman, I felt the need to point out that the link you supplied did not answer Old farrier's question, as he has confirmed. Do you have a sensible response?  

I honestly wonder about your motives. Your answer to straight questions is to avoid them, go off at a tangent or feign offence. You keep offering a phone call, when the only one I can recall commented that it was of little use or words to that effect. Are so arrogant that you think you could appease posters, by talking to them? It's laughable.

 

[Konor]

I think the perception that Conor will reveal information on a private phone call that will somehow explain the car crash that is the voluntary move away from lead shot and his behaviour/posts on this thread is wishful thinking on his part. 
 

 

[Gordon R]

Konor - despite his appalling contributions on this and other threads, I still feel sorry for him. He has dug a hole and isn't bright enough to get out of it. I genuinely think he is out of his comfort zone and his depth.

[Konor]

14 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Konor - despite his appalling contributions on this and other threads, I still feel sorry for him. He has dug a hole and isn't bright enough to get out of it. I genuinely think he is out of his comfort zone and his depth.

I agree reservedly with your comments Gordon R but frankly his arrogance and pompous manner brought about his downfall. He continued to act the role of an untrustworthy politician favouring to ignore the issues and straightforward questions preferring instead to focus on deflection and selecting to engage only with issues that favour his agenda. I think most others on the forum when questioned address the issues raised and aren’t afraid to inhabit the grey area where no one is fully correct and that postings will be subjective to a greater or lesser extent. The quality of posting on the forum demonstrates the inherent honesty of the average poster on the forum. Conor failed to match that honesty in his posts.His false insistence that he always answered straightforward questions was his downfall. 
No apologies ,no answers and therefore no credibility. I feel sorry that his behaviour led him to this point but I think it’s an example of the danger in continually failing to address issues raised in a straightforward manner , questioning the integrity of fellow posters and underestimating the average poster on the forum.

[Konor]

53 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

He has dug a hole and isn't bright enough to get out of it.

He is probably a bright academic but his reliance on a political line rather than open honest debate in his posts handicapped him. I agree he dug a deep hole but like most of his ilk I’m sure he’ll brush it off as of no consequence and continue on the same path. Is that not the way of all politicians.

Very little accountability.

Edited April 21 by Konor
Addition

[Gordon R]

Quote

He is probably a bright academic 

I would take a lot of convincing.

[Konor]

3 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

I would take a lot of convincing.

I’ve got a few O levels myself so perhaps it’s not an even match 😂

[Old farrier]

3 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Konor - despite his appalling contributions on this and other threads, I still feel sorry for him. He has dug a hole and isn't bright enough to get out of it. I genuinely think he is out of his comfort zone and his depth.

Rule one 

when you’re in a hole stop digging 😂

2 hours ago, Gordon R said:

I would take a lot of convincing.

Many of the world’s problems are caused by bright academics 

very few by country bumpkins 😂

 

[scolopax]

6 hours ago, Konor said:

Conor I fear your credibility has taken a nosedive,

Unfortunately I think that now would be an appropriate time to retire from posting on the forum.

Do you not think that under the circumstances an apology would be in order for knowingly making false statements ?

Give it a rest.  Who are you to tell him to retire from the forum! ? 

Conor has posted and contributed to this forum for many years. He is the only staff member of any of the shooting organisations to do so.

 

Agree or disagree with policies of his employer I for one, and no doubt others, appreciate the fact that he is even on here.

[Konor]

4 hours ago, scolopax said:

Give it a rest.  Who are you to tell him to retire from the forum! ? 

Conor has posted and contributed to this forum for many years. He is the only staff member of any of the shooting organisations to do so.

 

Agree or disagree with policies of his employer I for one, and no doubt others, appreciate the fact that he is even on here.

If you read my post you will see that I am not telling him to retire from the forum I’m stating that I think it’s time he should retire, a personal opinion not a command.

The policies of his employer were not what I was disagreeing with, it was the false statement he made and his personal decision to ignore the points I raised on the thread along with his dismissive attitude.

You are free to support that behaviour but by criticising it I am indicating that I consider it unacceptable. I’m sure as I stated earlier that Conor will brush it off but just as you are holding me to account for my posts so I am holding Conor to account for his. Perhaps by kicking back at what is being pushed through and the all or nothing stance of BASC and others there can be a space created for those that enjoy using vintage guns to do so fully with minimal environmental impact.Nothing will be achieved by blindly agreeing with policies that you consider unfair. At no point did Conor address the failing to consider the potential negotiation of a change to non toxic shot only in areas responsible for the greatest by far deposition of lead shot and assessing the impact of doing so before accepting a legislated lead ban.

My disagreeing was not on a personal level and although his ignoring of the points I was making was frustrating this whole escapade would have been resolved had he as he falsely stated “always answered straightforward questions” I’m sorry if by taking him to task for falsely claiming that has upset you  but surely there is a need for accountability ,trying to ensure that can be unpleasant  but necessary. How many threads have unresolved issues that are constantly referred back to because the nature of the discussion was subjective and no agreement could be found this is not one of those cases and I think I have taken the time to explain why I think that is so.

As an aside David / BASC was a regular contributor too.

Edited April 22 by Konor

[Konor]

On 20/04/2024 at 11:17, London Best said:

YAWN.

12.7k views, so a substantial number of people did not concur with you London Best. This issue is by far the largest hurdle that has faced shooting sports in my lifetime. It is important that the views of those greatly affected by the decisions made in its regard are heard and that they reflect the strength of opinion held. Would you not consider that a a balanced fair view.

[London Best]

Yes Konor, I would. 
But it’s the constant tit for tat arguing/points scoring which I find very tedious. I don’t come on here to argue and will not argue with anyone on here, and I don’t want to read posts in which others keep on and on determined to have the last word.