ShootHub Podcast - lead shot latest with BASC's Terry Behan

[Conor O'Gorman]

4 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Reading is my preferred choice 

I can’t put up with the whistling and cracking 

 

Fair enough, sorry about that. If you run the podcast through an online transcript service it will generate the text onto your computer. An hour of podcast is a fair amount of text but not as long as the HSE background doc you took the time to read (it took me 2 days!).

7 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

I far prefer to engage face to face over a cup of tea with cake far more gentlemanly than a telephone call 

Well if you are ever around Chester or North Wales it would be nice to meet up and talk about partridge and lead shot.

27 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Got ya, if you dont listen to BASC updates or podcasts (which I do) youre an anti , glad you cleared that up for us (handful)

I understood you have not listened to the ShootHub podcast? Here it is again:

https://theshoothubpodcast.podbean.com/e/lead-shot-latest/

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

29 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

You get a regular beating on the SD , probably a worse crowd than on PW TBH 😄
No doubt you wont recall that though ?

Is that the only other forum you can come up with? As it happens no comments on the podcast on there so far - but I guess you could use your account on there to kick start the negativity for a handful of other accounts also? 

https://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/threads/shoothub-podcast-lead-shot-latest-with-bascs-terry-behan.283633/

How many active accounts do you currently manage on PW?

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

You arent the voice of shooting , because you dont listen to what your members, or anyone else who shoots, wants, which is for BASC to fight against the encroaching restrictions.

That does not make any sense.

You will know that BASC is democratically run by its members for its members. Do you partake in BASC elections? Do you engage in the AGM?

You must know that BASC has been successfully arguing against the HSE lead ban proposals. There was much pessimism on this forum about overturning the 2022 HSE proposed ban on lead airgun pellets - BASC  helped overturn that for 2 million airgunners.  You must also know about the HSE U-turn on its 2022 proposed ban on lead rifle ammunition which BASC also argued against. You must also know that BASC continues to argue against a ban on lead shot.

[Old farrier]

29 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Fair enough, sorry about that. If you run the podcast through an online transcript service it will generate the text onto your computer. An hour of podcast is a fair amount of text but not as long as the HSE background doc you took the time to read (it took me 2 days!).

Well if you are ever around Chester or North Wales it would be nice to meet up and talk about partridge and lead shot.

I understood you have not listened to the ShootHub podcast? Here it is again:

https://theshoothubpodcast.podbean.com/e/lead-shot-latest/

 

I read it before you posted the link and re read it again 

nothing in it relevant to the question I asked 

rarely get up to marford mill nowadays 

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

How many active accounts do you currently manage on PW?

Oh dear , do you suspect its not only just a 'handful' it's just me myself and I questioning BASC 🤣

 

41 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

You will know that BASC is democratically run by its members for its members

Don't be ridiculous,  where was the vote on the transition ? Where was the vote on dropping legal cover ect ect

It's not a democracy , it bears no resemblance. 

44 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

You must know that BASC has been successfully arguing against the HSE lead ban proposals. There was much pessimism on this forum about overturning the 2022 HSE proposed ban on lead airgun pellets - BASC  helped overturn that for 2 million airgunners.  You must also know about the HSE U-turn on its 2022 proposed ban on lead rifle ammunition which BASC also argued against. You must also know that BASC continues to argue against a ban on lead shot

Conor , this is old ground, you can't argue against a ban on something you have continually stated is TOXIC , harmful to humans who eat lead shot meat , poisons wild birds before they can be shot, and is detrimental to the environment in general.

This. Is where we disagree.

[Conor O'Gorman]

2 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

I read it before you posted the link and re read it again 

nothing in it relevant to the question I asked 

rarely get up to marford mill nowadays 

Pages 84 onwards of particular interest. Basically all seed eating birds and some invertebrate eating birds from  house sparrows to geese are at high risk from ingesting shot sizes #9 to #BB. The UK evidence quoted in the report is specifically for chickens, ducks (various), grey partridge, pheasant, red grouse and red-legged partridge. Then evidence is given for many more bird species present in UK from studies outside of UK for lead shot ingestion. 

If you do happen to be near Marford Mill anytime in future do send me a message.

[Terry2016]

12 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Terry 2016, you certainly seem keen to post about the danger of lead pipes and as you say they have been banned since the 1970's.

Those that are left are invariably on the waste side of the water, i.e.used to take waste water out of the building.

The issue here is about the use of the best material to kill birds in the air.

Just to add another element to the argument;

I would have been much happier if our Shooting Organisations, lead by BASC had called via their memberships for a ban on the use of plastic wads.

The replacement of lead could have been initiated at the same time and with a little encouragement, the Cartridge Manufacturers might have got a move on and come up with proper alternatives.

As long as it remains a VOLUNTARY TRANSITION away from Lead, I will continue to work my way through the stockpile.

 

Now I have tried to remain polite and respectful but will now await the small group who repeatedly derail the debate by calling for us to accept what has happened and to call us out for daring to point out the poor history of the Voice of British Shooting (BASC).

Just responding to a person who had concerns about lead water pipes? do you find that a problem ? providing people with evidence where they have genuine concerns, its an evidence based response nothing more. its a copy and paste from the point of reference.

The orgs have requested a move away from plastic wads, obviously a ban would have been impossible due to the lack of products but now we are in a far greater place. 

Out of interest what exactly is a "proper" alternative?

The idea of a transition is so that you can work through your stockpile so keep going ... 

[Conor O'Gorman]

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

Oh dear , do you suspect its not only just a 'handful' it's just me myself and I questioning BASC 🤣

You have not answered the question. How many active accounts do you currently manage on PW?

Another question - you were recently asking about my role at BASC - have you visited my LinkedIn account in the last 10 days?

[Terry2016]

11 hours ago, Windswept said:

There's still plenty of lead supply pipes in use. Where I used to live on the edge of a large city all the water company pipes that went down the roads to feed houses were still lead. Most houses have replaced the feed from the road to the house with plastic but I can't see that helping much. Many of the lead pipes get disturbed by road works, traffic etc so I can easily see lead getting into drinking water.

 

 

Agreed, the point is they no longer use it and are moving away where they can, 

[holloway]

1 hour ago, grahamch said:

I see the usual old farts have hijacked this thread .......

👍 Tedious old farts 😂

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

You have not answered the question. How many active accounts do you currently manage on PW?

Oh , I've got to answer the question , despite how daft it is 😂

Just the one Conor. 

What leads you to think otherwise ?

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Another question - you were recently asking about my role at BASC - have you visited my LinkedIn account in the last 10 days?

Another daft question, why is that relevant,  or of any issue ?

The fact I quoted directly from it on the last thread should give you the answer.

[Konor]

7 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

transition so far has been a success,

Do you have figures to substantiate that claim ? I was under the impression that non compliance was running at 90% plus.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

10 hours ago, Rewulf said:

What leads you to think otherwise ?

Call it intuition borne of experience. What newspaper do you read?

10 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Another daft question, why is that relevant,  or of any issue ?

Multiple visits. Rather creepy. Did you get my contact request?

14 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

BASC did a survey about the transition earlier this year - did you complete the survey?

I think you missed this question - could you answer it please.

[Conor O'Gorman]

13 hours ago, Rewulf said:

You get a regular beating on the SD , probably a worse crowd than on PW TBH

Is that the only other forum you can come up with? As it happens no comments on the podcast on there so far - but I guess you could use your account on there to kick start the negativity for a handful of other accounts also? 

https://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/threads/shoothub-podcast-lead-shot-latest-with-bascs-terry-behan.283633/ 

[Konor]

22 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Is that the only other forum you can come up with? As it happens no comments on the podcast on there so far - but I guess you could use your account on there to kick start the negativity for a handful of other accounts also? 

https://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/threads/shoothub-podcast-lead-shot-latest-with-bascs-terry-behan.283633/ 

Do you honestly consider that the opposition to your political propaganda is due to one person with multiple accounts when you have had virtually zero support for your stance and non compliance runs at 93%.

Utterly delusional. You should apply some critical thinking before you respond. Not only have you received a sound thrashing each time you post you're muddled thinking you are in danger of bringing the credibility of BASC into question by association. 

You've already been advised to stop digging perhaps BASC should take away your spade

[Bobba]

Reading this thread and the previous 23 page thread (now closed) I begin to wonder whether there is anybody on this planet that shares what appears to be Connor O’Gormans arrogant misplaced self belief in his own superior intellectual debating skills and knowledge. I suspect he is in the majority of one.

If his views and approach are representative of the BASC  core thinking then were it not a condition of my permission I would leave the BASC with immediate effect.

Henceforth I will ignore any thread where Conor O’Gorman is the OP.

[Gordon R]

Quote

Reading this thread and the previous 23 page thread (now closed) I begin to wonder whether there is anybody on this planet that shares what appears to be Connor O’Gormans arrogant misplaced self belief in his own superior intellectual debating skills and knowledge. I suspect he is in the majority of one.

Sadly, I have to agree. He does seem to place a lot of faith in his ability to convey a message in one of his "phone calls", which cannot, for some strange reason, be published on this forum.

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Call it intuition borne of experience. What newspaper do you read?

Experience eh ?😉

Newspaper ? Relevance ? 

The daily sport if you must know 😍 Also my inside leg measurement 32 inch , and I weigh 13 stone, dark hair, dark eyes and devilish smile, anything else you need to know ?

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Multiple visits. Rather creepy. Did you get my contact request

That's right Conor , you're being stalked 😃 all of 2 visits , trying to find out your job description at BASC , because you flatly refuse to answer that STRAIGHTFORWARD  question.

 

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

think you missed this question - could you answer it please

Yes I completed the pointless survey , with its weird multiple choice questions on what type of shooting I did, and did nothing whatsoever to give a voice to the disenfranchised. 

I'm beginning to think you like asking questions, rather than answering them.

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

s that the only other forum you can come up with? As it happens no comments on the podcast on there so far - but I guess you could use your account on there to kick start the negativity for a handful of other accounts also?

There's no comments on it Conor because no one can be bothered to listen to it !

And no , I won't be starting any negativity on it , because that's not what I'm about, I ask questions on what I consider relevant topics, you duck and dive and try your best not to answer them , then you start the 'anti' spiel and insults to get the thread locked.

Edited April 24 by Rewulf

[Conor O'Gorman]

19 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

anything else you need to know ?

No thank you. I have all the information I need.

[Rewulf]

33 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

No thank you. I have all the information I need.

You're scaring me now Conor, please don't turn up with your attack partridges and boil my bunny 

[Conor O'Gorman]

8 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

You're scaring me now Conor, please don't turn up with your attack partridges and boil my bunny 

Well done, you are back on my ignore list. If you are truly interested in solutions for shooting as you claim to be please contact your PCC candidates and report back any replies to BASC via politics@basc.org.uk 

[Konor]

26 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

No thank you. I have all the information I need.

And with that information gained from interacting with members on the forum what insights have you gained ? That your “science based “ reality has not been accepted by the majority of the forum perhaps or is it that you secretly have overwhelming support but for reasons unknown it is not being reflected in the responses to your posts. 
I acknowledge your refusal to respond to my questions and points raised. When you were interviewed for your position at BASC did you think it would be in your best interests if questioned on your ability to represent initiatives proposed by BASC that you would state ignoring questions, insulting members,inventing false scenarios all while maintaining a level of pomposity would have been considered an answer that would ensure you secured the post. Surely BASC must be monitoring your contributions to this forum after so many have been locked. 
Do BASC support your conduct on this and other threads or do they consider that your posts will have no repercussions on BASC’s reputation.

 I have worked with BASC representatives just over 20 years ago, their ability to gain the support of wildfowlers while possibly not without criticism was light years ahead of what I am witnessing now. The common thread causing significant criticism then and is now was that some employees failed to create a rapport  through their manner and failed to represent the members/shooters  views. I suggest that you are guilty of both and in doing so are doing a disservice to BASC. Unless of course you are the new face of BASC and representative of their values in which case that is a bigger problem.

While we should be fighting opponents of fieldsports we are fighting each other surely a preposterous state of affairs. The vocal minority want all shooting banned the use of lead and the small percentage of birds succumbing to poisoning, if in reality that is occurring inland, is an irrelevance to them they are only using that possibility along with your support to end quarry shooting completely.

Do you seriously think forum members are coming on here just to personally attack you because of some grudge they are nursing no they are speaking out in the defence of shooting sports the sad thing is that you continually fail to acknowledge it. You are of greater use to the anti fieldsports enthusiasts if you continue down the road you are on.

i can only hope that your continued presence on here is not being funded by BASC and  that your “contributions “are being made in your own time 

[Konor]

2 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Call it intuition borne of experience. What newspaper do you read?

[Rewulf]

27 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Well done, you are back on my ignore list. If you are truly interested in solutions for shooting as you claim to be please contact your PCC candidates and report back any replies to BASC via politics@basc.org.uk 

Sorry Conor , I don't report to BASC, that's your job.

Tel them how great you are doing at creating support within the shooting community,  I wouldn't use this as your evidence though if I were you.

[Gordon R]

Against my better judgement, I listened to the whole podcast. If you want to hear about Carribean holidays or Carribean February weather - this is the podcast for you. Exciting topics about whether you would prefer to wear wellingtons day and night or never wear them at all. Terry described that as "a difficult one", finally coming down on the side of never wearing wellies. I was surprised and shocked by his response that he would never wear them. I confess to missing the link between the Carribean / wellies and lead shot.

Terry said that the debate about lead shot started 40 years ago, but immediately moved to the ban on using lead over wetlands in 1999 and then to the current transition. I listened a couple of times just to make sure I hadn't lost 15 years. I am still unclear about what he meant.

When questioned about whether the voluntary transition was successful, he said that significant progress had been made by manufacturers of ammunition. He didn't seem to grasp that about 6% of birds shot with steel, was some way short of 100%.

Classic "they was coming in" and HSE minus the silent aitch.

At around 23.20mins, he did refer to tests on gel covered in pheasant skin demonstrating that steel shot penetrated better than lead. I read the same research which seemed to indicate no difference. A bit odd.

When asked about the dangers of lead water pipes, he was quick to point out that this had been banned for new builds in the last 20 years. He waffled on about existing lead pipe by helpfully pointing out that a householder could replace the lead pipe which was within their boundary. If a householder had lead pipe right up to their boundary, I struggled with the rationale in replacing a relatively short section, at a not so small cost.

He seemed to be unaware of any barrels scored by steel shot, which he described as soft iron. He wasn't hot on detail about the need for a protective wad to enclose the steel shot. I don't know why manufacturers bothered about the protective wad, as Terry gave me the impression that barrels don't need protecting.

The whole podcast seemed to deal with the sale of game shot with lead or steel. The alleged damage to the environment was given negligible coverage.

As some would say - listen and make up your own mind. It's up to you.