The long road back

[Bigteddy1954]

Personaly on my state pension and my private pension I pay over £1200 a year tax so I'm still paying tax at 70 

If your good at maths you can work out my yearly income and it's not great 

[Bigteddy1954]

When Liz and her pal last had a budget they crashed the economy, pension pots lost thousands,and still not recovered yet ,and bank intrest rates sky rocketed and that from the the party most of the people on here support

[oowee]

24 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, If there is a real harsh cold winter there will be quite a few pensioners not make the Spring 🤔

Time for a rerun on Brexit 🤣 only joking. 

 

34 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, I hope Labour is not in for 10 years 🤔, Wait till the Budget 🤔, I think people already regret voting Labour 🤔, well at least a few million pensioners 🤔

Patriots 😁 hope they do a good job. For me I don't care so long as they have some ideas to try and Starmer has that. I voted Cameron as there was hope. Unfortunately over run and undermined by radicals. We need some stability and a 10 year plan is the only way to get some normality. 

[oldypigeonpopper]

9 minutes ago, oowee said:

Time for a rerun on Brexit 🤣 only joking. 

 

Patriots 😁 hope they do a good job. For me I don't care so long as they have some ideas to try and Starmer has that. I voted Cameron as there was hope. Unfortunately over run and undermined by radicals. We need some stability and a 10 year plan is the only way to get some normality. 

Hello, We have been saying that in the UK for as long as i could vote, Labour get in, Crash !!!!, Conservative get in, Crash !!!!!, Lets make Britain great again, !!!! how many times we heard that !!!!!, Labour use to be the Party for looking after working families and Pensioners  , now it looks after the illegal immigrants better than UK citizens

Edited October 8 by oldypigeonpopper

[oowee]

5 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, We have been saying that in the UK for as long as i could vote, Labour get in, Crash !!!!, Conservative get in, Crash !!!!!, Lets make Britain great again, !!!! how many times we heard that !!!!!, Labour use to be the Party for looking after working families and Pensioners  , now it looks after the illegal immigrants better than UK citizens

Hardly. They have been in power 100 days(?) Conditions are the same. How can you honestly say its any different? 

Pensioners get a good screw far more out than they paid in on (average). 

[JohnfromUK]

19 minutes ago, Bigteddy1954 said:

and still not recovered yet

It will depend on the funds chosen.  My pension fund is up considerably since it's 'pre Liz Truss' value.  It did drop in late 2022, but has come back and passed it's previous maximum since - and by a respectable margin.  I can't give exact percentages as I don't have the figures separate, but overall Liz Truss year dropped 11% - and has 'bounced back' by 28% since.

[Bigteddy1954]

Yeah on your pension but not every bodies.But if they didn't do it it would have risen 39% 

3 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

It will depend on the funds chosen.  My pension fund is up considerably since it's 'pre Liz Truss' value.  It did drop in late 2022, but has come back and passed it's previous maximum since - and by a respectable margin.  I can't give exact percentages as I don't have the figures separate, but overall Liz Truss year dropped 11% - and has 'bounced back' by 28% since.

 

And what kind of pension you have got and size of pot 

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, Bigteddy1954 said:

Yeah on your pension but not every bodies.But if they didn't do it it would have risen 39% 

 

The Liz Truss budget affair only really affected UK parts of the 'pot' that makes up the pension fund.  Many funds have the investments spread around the world markets to avoid the risks of 'local' fluctuations - but you get some risk of currency fluctuation which you don't get in a UK only based fund.

[Bigteddy1954]

Wether it lost a £100 or thousands add all the pensions that lost money combined it probably runs into millions

[amateur]

35 minutes ago, oowee said:

..... We need some stability and a 10 year plan is the only way to get some normality. 

Ah yes, the great socialist plans.

They always worked out well.

[oowee]

14 minutes ago, amateur said:

Ah yes, the great socialist plans.

They always worked out well.

🤣 Socialist ???? 🤣🤣🤣

[oowee]

15 minutes ago, Bigteddy1954 said:

Wether it lost a £100 or thousands add all the pensions that lost money combined it probably runs into millions

It's billions. Also billions on treasury payments still. 

[Gordon R]

If we are getting out more than we pay in, does that apply to everyone? Beats me how the system runs if illegals end up with a pension, if they contribute nothing. Are the rest of the population paying for this? No reply needed, as we already know.

Can those who feel the urge to say they won't get a pension - desist, as they eventually will do - possibly without contributing at all.

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

Beats me how the system runs if illegals end up with a pension, if they contribute nothing.

I'll make a suggestion.  The sections of the judiciary and civil service who let them in share their pensions with those they let in.

[amateur]

3 hours ago, oowee said:

🤣 Socialist ???? 🤣🤣🤣

As I recall, the Union of Soviet Socialist  Republics were very keen on their 5 and 7 year plans. They worked terribly well.

[oowee]

56 minutes ago, amateur said:

As I recall, the Union of Soviet Socialist  Republics were very keen on their 5 and 7 year plans. They worked terribly well.

They were that's true. 

You think having a plan is socialist?

🤣

[old man]

3 hours ago, Gordon R said:

If we are getting out more than we pay in, does that apply to everyone? Beats me how the system runs if illegals end up with a pension, if they contribute nothing. Are the rest of the population paying for this? No reply needed, as we already know.

Can those who feel the urge to say they won't get a pension - desist, as they eventually will do - possibly without contributing at all.

Clearly Gordon we don't understand the current economics of the uk?

Good job that I'm thick or I would be forced to share your concerns? 🤔

[amateur]

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

They were that's true. 

You think having a plan is socialist?

🤣

Only that few, if any, socialist plans have worked historically.

 

[oowee]

47 minutes ago, amateur said:

Only that few, if any, socialist plans have worked historically.

 

🤷‍♂️

[Rewulf]

On 08/10/2024 at 12:27, oowee said:

Pensioners get a good screw far more out than they paid in on (average). 

A good screw ? Youre not wrong there....

The average term a pensioner gets to spend this 'bounty' is 8 years, some have spent 50 years working, paying taxes, and raising children who in turn pay taxes.
Women in particular got shafted when they raised their state pension age from 60.

Its not the government giving away 'free' money to people who survive long enough, its a pot they paid into all their working lives.

[oowee]

17 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

A good screw ? Youre not wrong there....

The average term a pensioner gets to spend this 'bounty' is 8 years, some have spent 50 years working, paying taxes, and raising children who in turn pay taxes.
Women in particular got shafted when they raised their state pension age from 60.

Its not the government giving away 'free' money to people who survive long enough, its a pot they paid into all their working lives.

Agreed (mostly) but the new consolidated pension pays out more than was paid in. Payments in are treated as a contribution to the pot for expenditure.

The tripple lock is an unsustainable political straight jacket.

It relies upon a growing economy and population to continue. With a birth rate at less than 1.5 something has to give. Or continue with migration. 

[oowee]

Claverley out. Now there is a surprise. Over to the members. 

[Rewulf]

52 minutes ago, oowee said:

The tripple lock is an unsustainable political straight jacket.

I agree, the government that abolishes it is dead, so they wont.
The NHS is another one, and paying people to sit on their behinds who are perfectly capable of earning a living.
All government killers.

And like turkeys, they wont be voting for Xmas.

[JohnfromUK]

Pensions - in years gone by Her Majesty's Gov't (HMG) worked hard to get people to have responsibility for (at least a part of) their pensions.

Things like 'contracting out', final salary schemes etc were the order of the day ...... and it worked.  HMG encouraged it with tax relief on contributions and pressured (bigger) employers into offering schemes - and the money was (well a lot of it) invested to provide working capital for British Industry.  Indeed some of the final salary schemes were almost as good as the flagship gold plated pensions offered to HMG's own servants.

Then we had a change of Gov't and the incoming spotted people building their own wealth and independence with the help from HM Treasury in reliefs on contributions and re-invested dividends.  They raided it - outright theft - taking the money, frittering it away as Gov'ts do - and shattered peoples confidence in using pensions for long term planning for their savings and for retirement.

In one move the whole confidence people had in getting control of a way to save for their financial future and retirement was shattered.

Successive Gov'ts have worked to try and rebuild that confidence by allowing easier withdrawals for older people giving them better flexibility to pay off mortgages etc, and also (important to many) allowing the pension 'pot' to be outside their 'estate' for inheritance tax purposes (restricted in scope to an extent by age limitations on the deceased).

Now - having got a bit of confidence back, it is strongly rumoured it is to be raided again and peoples confidence to save shattered again.  Rumours suggest a MUCH lower tax free sum being allowed to be withdrawn (e.g. to pay off mortgage), possible caps on sums for tax reliefs and possibly being treated as part of a persons estate on death.,

It is so good to allow people to save tax free - bolstering capital for British Industry and reducing the retired dependence on the state - but once again the saver seems likely to be betrayed and stabbed in the back. 

 

[oowee]

I can't agree that the govt has been building confidence. Not when Sipp age is under attack  (55 to 57 with your own cash) and the pension contribution has been limited at £40k. Further crippled with the tapered reduction. 

As for the rumours let's wait and see. 

I would agree thought that these changes suck confidence from the whole system. We also need it to work to move away from State pension other than as a basic fall back. It's difficult to see a way out.