JohnfromUK Posted August 8 Author Report Share Posted August 8 17 minutes ago, Robden said: If our idiotic government does do away with petrol and diesel, how much will the price of gas and electric have to go up, to compensate for the loss of billions of the revenue they will lose? There is a suggested route to use 'road pricing'; i.e pay by usage. My guess is that all oil/gas fuels, both for transport and heating will be pushed upwards and used to subsidise electricity - not so much to reduce price, but upgrade network to cope with higher loads. Because of charging at home, it is not easy to tax differently on electricity between heating/domestic use and transport use. The obvious increase in 'annual road tax' would see light users penalised and effectively subsidising heavy users. Since 'they' want to discourage mileage (as much for congestion reasons as energy reasons) something based on mileage seems likely. My guess is some sort of road pricing will form a part of this. How this is done is not clear, but the technology of things like city charging/ULEZ/toll roads seems likely to be involved somewhere. Time will tell. I do a very low mileage (well under 5000 a year), so will hope for a solution that rewards light users in some way, but as the saying goes "Blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall not be disappointed". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted August 8 Report Share Posted August 8 29 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: I do a very low mileage (well under 5000 a year), so will hope for a solution that rewards light users in some way, but as the saying goes "Blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall not be disappointed". Yes, indeed, I do about 7000 annually and hope some consideration is given to the "light user" rather than getting us to pay for the inevitable changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted August 8 Report Share Posted August 8 Pay per mile is the fairest but will hit inflation as the cost increase will hit every sector and all forms of distribution / the supply chain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted August 8 Report Share Posted August 8 On 01/08/2024 at 18:46, enfieldspares said: 1. I think you will find that is hybrid. More ICE cars go on fire than full electric. Surely you should have known that. 2. Those weights are nothing compared to other vehicles on the road. Every know that most potholes are caused by water ingress and freeze / thaw conditions. 3. Loads of small ICE cars had zero tax. It's not free to run them, I pay tax on my fuel. Come next year I'll also have road tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyH Posted August 8 Report Share Posted August 8 Just my 2p... Going back to the 'Leccy cars to pay road tax from 25'....I pay road tax for my cars and my bikes,..All petrol/diesel engine vehicles. I do believe that every vehicle using the roads should pay road tax. But as said before, pay by mile, even if its only a small amount a year. Everyone uses the road, so why not charge them for the upkeep and repair of the roads? Even cyclists....Not so much road tax, but at the least insurance, but thats a whole different conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted August 8 Report Share Posted August 8 18 minutes ago, BobbyH said: Everyone uses the road, so why not charge them for the upkeep and repair of the roads? Because 'road tax' (VED) does not pay for the up keep of roads. It goes into the general taxation pot. There was a brief proposal from Jeremy Hunt to ring fence VED for road maintenance, but it was dropped. If I were a betting man, I'd suggest pricing per mile wouldn't either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 8 Author Report Share Posted August 8 3 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said: Because 'road tax' (VED) does not pay for the up keep of roads. It goes into the general taxation pot. There was a brief proposal from Jeremy Hunt to ring fence VED for road maintenance, but it was dropped. If I were a betting man, I'd suggest pricing per mile wouldn't either. Ring fencing is really unpopular with government because it shows how much/little is spent on some areas; On one side - transport raises a lot of money overall (VED, fuel taxes and new car taxes) but gets little spent on it The health service uses MASSIVE amounts of money - far more that NI alone could cover (and NI also covers pensions). Also the elderly/pensioners are among the biggest users of the health service but don't pay NI (anymore). Gov't like to hide the massive cost of he health service as it is an embarrassment. Generalisations I know and not a universally popular view as many view the health service with an almost religious reverence - but it is a bloated and inefficient money pit. And transport, particularly private forms of transport are fantastic 'cash cows' waiting to me milked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.357shooter Posted August 11 Report Share Posted August 11 As they weigh the same as a small hgv and tear up the road surface the tax should be at least £1200 a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 11 hours ago, .357shooter said: As they weigh the same as a small hgv and tear up the road surface the tax should be at least £1200 a year. What an awesome contribution. Did Barry down the pub tell you this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 16 Author Report Share Posted August 16 I see Pay-per-mile is in the press today. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-13746431/Pay-mile-road-tax-introduced-replacing-VED-EV-Switch-October-budget.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted August 16 Report Share Posted August 16 Well if it happens it would make it fairer across the whole gamut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 16 Author Report Share Posted August 16 Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said: Well if it happens it would make it fairer across the whole gamut. One 'suggestion' is that for non electric vehicles, the fuel duty and possibly VED on oil based fuel would remain - and pay-per-mile levied in addition. Part of the attempt to demonise oil use and force people to electric. That would NOT be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted August 16 Report Share Posted August 16 It's simply another form of tax. It's difficult to link it to wealth. A charge by mileage is a fairer solution but how to link that to electric? Maybe an annual ticket per car owner based on earnings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 16 Author Report Share Posted August 16 17 minutes ago, oowee said: A charge by mileage is a fairer solution but how to link that to electric? Most modern cars have already telematics that record the journeys. (I can go on the "My Toyota" site and see exactly where I have been and when. I suspect that there is more data (speeds?) not visible to me as well. Just make it compulsory to share that with HMG. Kills two birds with one stone, pay per mile and Big Brother can watch your movements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted August 16 Report Share Posted August 16 59 minutes ago, oowee said: It's simply another form of tax. It's difficult to link it to wealth. A charge by mileage is a fairer solution but how to link that to electric? Maybe an annual ticket per car owner based on earnings. Why on earth should car tax be based on earnings? This from somebody who has never earned much money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted August 16 Report Share Posted August 16 30 minutes ago, London Best said: Why on earth should car tax be based on earnings? This from somebody who has never earned much money. Why on earth should it not be based on earnings? It's simply tax. Linked to earnings it could be more proportionate, not discriminate against those in rural communities forced into ownership etc. Far easier to collect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted August 16 Report Share Posted August 16 3 minutes ago, oowee said: Why on earth should it not be based on earnings? It's simply tax. Linked to earnings it could be more proportionate, not discriminate against those in rural communities forced into ownership etc. Far easier to collect. And simply NOT FAIR! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted August 16 Report Share Posted August 16 9 minutes ago, London Best said: And simply NOT FAIR! Lets base it on consumption. A tax based upon list price at purchase that stays with the vehicle for life. We have the start of that already with the value tax for higher cost cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoli 12 guage Posted August 16 Report Share Posted August 16 11 minutes ago, oowee said: Why on earth should it not be based on earnings? It's simply tax. Linked to earnings it could be more proportionate, not discriminate against those in rural communities forced into ownership etc. Far easier to collect. what the hell has a road/vehicle tax got to do with how much you earn🤷♀️ you already pay the required amount on your earnings. i believe that you and the rest of your ilk on here are just pulling on the organ that we,the right wing,urinate through.😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted August 16 Report Share Posted August 16 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Zoli 12 guage said: what the hell has a road/vehicle tax got to do with how much you earn🤷♀️ you already pay the required amount on your earnings. i believe that you and the rest of your ilk on here are just pulling on the organ that we,the right wing,urinate through.😉 What has road tax to do with roads? What has the current value road tax on cars got to do with roads? I reckon a tax based on value that stayed with the vehicle for life would be the fairest way to do it. I think you need to be a little more imaginative. Edited August 16 by oowee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoli 12 guage Posted August 16 Report Share Posted August 16 5 minutes ago, oowee said: What has road tax to do with roads? What has the current value road tax on cars got to do with roads? simple answer,if you don't pay it, it's illegal to take/drive the vehicle on the road🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted August 16 Report Share Posted August 16 1 minute ago, Zoli 12 guage said: simple answer,if you don't pay it, it's illegal to take/drive the vehicle on the road🙄 Of course. It's currently a very random tax that has a zillion anomalies. Basing it on consumption would be fairer particularly to those on lower incomes. the premise that if its unpaid it would be illegal to put your vehicle on the road would be the same. Basing it on consumption would get rid of the £40k threshold and make that more transparent. If its ok to charge more road tax to cars over £40k why not taper that for higher cost vehicles? Use could be taxed through the existing fuel mechanism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoli 12 guage Posted August 16 Report Share Posted August 16 1 hour ago, oowee said: Use could be taxed through the existing fuel mechanism. i agree it would fairer to charge for the amount of usage/fuel burnt👍 BUT,how would that be possible for EV's🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted August 16 Report Share Posted August 16 42 minutes ago, Zoli 12 guage said: i agree it would fairer to charge for the amount of usage/fuel burnt👍 BUT,how would that be possible for EV's🤔 A road tax on first purchase based upon vehicle (rrp) value that followed the car for life. The Current £350 (or whatever it is) extra tax levied on vehicles over £40k would continue but be linked for life rather than 5 years. Something like cars under £20k pay tax of 'x' annually for life, those under £30k pay 'y' and so on. The tax on fuel would encourage more economy as now, ev's would pay road tax on value like all others and then as they don't use fossil fuel they would not pay the fuel tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoli 12 guage Posted August 16 Report Share Posted August 16 2 hours ago, oowee said: A road tax on first purchase based upon vehicle (rrp) value that followed the car for life. The Current £350 (or whatever it is) extra tax levied on vehicles over £40k would continue but be linked for life rather than 5 years. Something like cars under £20k pay tax of 'x' annually for life, those under £30k pay 'y' and so on. The tax on fuel would encourage more economy as now, ev's would pay road tax on value like all others and then as they don't use fossil fuel they would not pay the fuel tax. how don't EV's use fossil fuel? are we on 100% renewables already? absolute load of gonads 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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