The Terminus of Civilisation

[Penelope]

This explains a bit!

 

[ditchman]

The end of civilisation as we know it will come with the Massive meteor called Woke 123......when it strikes the earth

[johnphilip]

Then surely   imagination into a county is to help a country,  what happens to the country all these people are leaving , who looks after the old .

[bruno22rf]

12 hours ago, ditchman said:

The end of civilisation as we know it will come with the Massive meteor called Woke 123......when it strikes the earth

Absolute tosh, and i find your use of the word "massive" offensive because it's sizist towards the Meteor.

[old man]

3 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

Absolute tosh, and i find your use of the word "massive" offensive because it's sizist towards the Meteor.

Maybe "woke" is similar to Covid, constantly changing sometimes to something more unpleasant?

[ditchman]

2 hours ago, bruno22rf said:

Absolute tosh, and i find your use of the word "massive" offensive because it's sizist towards the Meteor.

ohhh im so sorry ...i will go and kill myself in shame...

[johnphilip]

20 minutes ago, ditchman said:

ohhh im so sorry ...i will go and kill myself in shame...

And who will then advise  us on sexual matters 😉😉😉

[Raja Clavata]

Insight into who might be next on the list after the immigrants.

Open criticism of women who have not had children is prevalent and increasing in places like Japan; discussed this over dinner with a female colleague of my gf a few weeks ago - she is regularly accused of not being a real woman for never giving birth.

The problem with videos like this is they’re only telling part of the story. In the UK, 21.2% of working age population are economically inactive. Many will never have worked in their lives and have just been a constant drain. 

Is it too much of a stretch to consider this video as expressing views which are the thin end of the wedge towards Trump-esque misogyny and even the horrors of a world aligned to the Tate mindset, personally I don’t know.

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

she is regularly accused of not being a real woman for never giving birth

What kind of person would say that to a woman ?
I think I can guess.

 

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

The problem with videos like this is they’re only telling part of the story. In the UK, 21.2% of working age population are economically inactive. Many will never have worked in their lives and have just been a constant drain. 

Government has, for the last 30 years at least, cherished the vote of these people, kept them in benefits, and made sure that they dont rebel against the ethos of not MAKING them go to work, lest they vote for some opposition party that wont.

 

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

Is it too much of a stretch to consider this video as expressing views which are the thin end of the wedge towards Trump-esque misogyny and even the horrors of a world aligned to the Tate mindset

Im not picking that up, its just a simple fact that women are the only ones that can head off this future event, they still have a choice in whether they have children, no one is forcing them to go into birthing farms, its just economically unattractive to many.
Where those who are on benefits, its economically attractive to produce offspring.
To bring Trump or Tate into it, is just diversion away from the important message.

[Raja Clavata]

25 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

What kind of person would say that to a woman ?
I think I can guess.

She was telling us it's pretty much an open topic of public discourse in Japan.

27 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Government has, for the last 30 years at least, cherished the vote of these people, kept them in benefits, and made sure that they don't rebel against the ethos of not MAKING them go to work, lest they vote for some opposition party that wont.

And, irrespective of relative political positioning, this needs to change as it's a significant contributing factor to the current state of our nation. Fix this and we also become less attractive to illegal immigration.

30 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

I'm not picking that up, its just a simple fact that women are the only ones that can head off this future event, they still have a choice in whether they have children, no one is forcing them to go into birthing farms, its just economically unattractive to many.

 And that economic burden needs to be fixed. Cause and effect at play here, e.g. few responsible women are going to want to have children whilst still living with their parents, by the time they get a place of their own they are either used to not and enjoying not having the economic burden of children or feel like they've missed the boat.

The video does come across as a little denigrating to women in my opinion.

I agree no-one is forcing, or even suggesting, birthing farms - yet.

33 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Where those who are on benefits, its economically attractive to produce offspring.

Who are precisely the type of people we don't want reproducing but I guess someone is better than no-one.

37 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

To bring Trump or Tate into it, is just diversion away from the important message.

Is it though? I'm quoting from the Eatwell and Goodwin book on national populism (currently 60 pages in) - Populism is about the people, the group, whereas liberalism is about the individual and individual choice.

Populism is generally aligned to more conservative views on lifestyle which I believe equates to an inclination against abortion for example, surely that is relevant here?

[Raja Clavata]

18 hours ago, johnphilip said:

Then surely   imagination into a county is to help a country,  what happens to the country all these people are leaving , who looks after the old .

I'd "imagine" that in these countries the birthing rate is high enough that those who remain adequately support the old - the thing is they are normally supported by family rather than state.

It would be interesting to see how, over time, the birthing rate of the migrants is affected by the move to different countries. In a welfare based society with low infant mortality rates there is less "need" for birth rates at the high end of the scale...

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

She was telling us it's pretty much an open topic of public discourse in Japan.

Japan being a bastion of misogyny even today, Im not surprised.
I wonder if Tate is popular over there ?

 

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

And, irrespective of relative political positioning, this needs to change as it's a significant contributing factor to the current state of our nation. Fix this and we also become less attractive to illegal immigration.

I agree we need to fix it, absolutely.
But would it stop illegal immigration ?
You are assuming most illegals are coming over for the 'plentiful' job opportunities ?

 

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

And that economic burden needs to be fixed. Cause and effect at play here, e.g. few responsible women are going to want to have children whilst still living with their parents, by the time they get a place of their own they are either used to not and enjoying not having the economic burden of children or feel like they've missed the boat.

How ?
Maternity leave is fairly generous, and you cant legally be 'let go' for having children.
There used to be a time when it was perfectly possible for one parent to not work, and still be financially viable, now days there is often only one parent, and wages just dont go far enough.
But labours going to fix all that arent they ?

 

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

Is it though? I'm quoting from the Eatwell and Goodwin book on national populism (currently 60 pages in) - Populism is about the people, the group, whereas liberalism is about the individual and individual choice.

Populism is generally aligned to more conservative views on lifestyle which I believe equates to an inclination against abortion for example, surely that is relevant here?

I dont really agree with most of that, its a very broad brush that tries to paint everything into 'camps' which may work in selected examples, yet fails in others.

Abortion for example, doesnt fit into populist or conservative thinking per se, but is rather driven by religious belief, Islam for instance doesnt agree with abortion or contraception either, yet we never hear criticism of that 'populist' ideal ?

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

Japan being a bastion of misogyny even today, I'm not surprised.
I wonder if Tate is popular over there ?

From what I understand women who have had children in Japan are also quite vocal on the topic, so not really misogynist in that regard (but I do agree with - we discussed various related topics too, quite intense for a first meeting 😉).

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

I agree we need to fix it, absolutely.
But would it stop illegal immigration ?
You are assuming most illegals are coming over for the 'plentiful' job opportunities ?

It certainly wouldn't stop it as I'd imagine most immigrants come here to work and also support families at home - that wouldn't work on benefits (unless they take the benefits and work cash in hand too, not that anyone does that here of course).

There are plentiful job opportunities here in the UK at present.

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

How ?
Maternity leave is fairly generous, and you cant legally be 'let go' for having children.
There used to be a time when it was perfectly possible for one parent to not work, and still be financially viable, now days there is often only one parent, and wages just dont go far enough.
But labours going to fix all that arent they ?

"Force" more scroungers to work/reduce their benefits. Reduce the level of our cash in hand society and get everyone that is working paying a reasonable amount of tax. Reduce tax loopholes for high earners.

I don't see what Labour specifically has to do with it, 14 years of Tories (who I voted for in the GE) didn't fix any of it either. Politicising it ain't gonna help.

We need a cultural paradigm (seismic more like) shift if we really want to fix our issues, if people continue to demand things are better but only in so much that the changes don't impact them then we are screwed. Indeed, I was talking to my best mate from school today, taxi driver who's just come back from 3 weeks in Crete, he wants (demands) a stop to illegal immigration etc. but is totally against further restrictions on cash transactions (he likes his 3 weeks in Crete too much but is a bit sad it was only 3 weeks this year as it was 4 in 2023).

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

I don't really agree with most of that, its a very broad brush that tries to paint everything into 'camps' which may work in selected examples, yet fails in others.

Abortion for example, doesnt fit into populist or conservative thinking per se, but is rather driven by religious belief, Islam for instance doesnt agree with abortion or contraception either, yet we never hear criticism of that 'populist' ideal ?

Well Goodwin has referred to the people over the individual as a key tenet of Populism numerous times in the 60 pages I've read so far. 

I agree on the broad brush approach being flawed but there are key trends as well as different values that lead to an aligned position within Populism, again cited with examples numerous times in that book.

I used abortion as an example but by stating a position on abortion is formed by religious belief you're falling foul of your own point about painting with a broad brush, there are devout atheists who are absolutely opposed to abortion (my own father being an example).

I don't wish to offend but I'm increasingly of the view that some extreme right and some traditional islamic views actually align better than some might willingly be prepared/comfortable to accept - misogyny being one of them. 

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

don't see what Labour specifically has to do with it, 14 years of Tories (who I voted for in the GE) didn't fix any of it either. Politicising it ain't gonna help

But it's a political hot potato, for every party.

The party that forces the lazy into meaningful employment commits suicide, Labour aren't going to do it, the tories darent touch it either, a bit like a shake up of the NHS. 

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

don't wish to offend but I'm increasingly of the view that some extreme right and some traditional islamic views actually align better than some might willingly be prepared/comfortable to accept - misogyny being one of them

Absolutely, but one you're allowed to criticise, and the other.. Well..

[Miserableolgit]

Well, the wife and I contributed increased the population by two but damned if we could work out how to produce .1.