Say good bye to lead shot, HSE report.

[Old farrier]

On 16/12/2024 at 17:12, Scully said:

A post above has raised the question…..if the cartridge manufacturers won’t accept responsibility for any damage to barrels as a result of using steel, can I assume gun insurance wont insure?  If they do, at the very least premiums will rise as a result. 
Safety glasses are going to become the norm when shooting bolting bunnies I suppose. It’s not an issue, just something else to consider. 
The issue of whether standard steel can be used in full choke will have to be resolved for definite also, as current advice is both yes and a ‘recommended’ nothing tighter than half or even quarter for nitro proved guns, again, dependant in who you talk to. Personally I’m inclined to fall inline with the American train of thought, but it won’t be American insurers dictating policy, which in turn could mean opening up those chokes which in turn means a reproof ( with lead or steel? ) which in turn means added expense with no recompense for a legislative act which is beyond the end users control. 🤷‍♂️

What a mess. 
Lots to ponder while we cater to this farcical agenda, given Labours stated intent to ignore the needs of a few newts for the sake of a new housing estate. 😄
 

It’s a huge can of worms 🥴

imagine the worst that could happen and you’re gun actually blew up and injured yourself or a bystander 😱

it would be a insurance nightmare However I’m sure the orgs have thought about this and got it covered 🤔

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

4 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, What about all the lead in the ground any way, Every Detector day i have been on and that is 100s  brought up bucket fulls of lead

The key risk is various bird species eating lead shot as grit because if they eat that lead shot they will inevitably suffer sub-lethal or lethal effects as a direct result due to how the bird gizzard works in grinding those pellets up and the resulting lead salts entering into their bloodstream causing lead poisoning. This poisoning pathway has been researched extensively in many bird species worldwide. Those pieces of lead dug out on your detector days are not likely to be eaten by birds as grit. 

[Weihrauch17]

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

The key risk is various bird species eating lead shot as grit because if they eat that lead shot they will inevitably suffer sub-lethal or lethal effects as a direct result due to how the bird gizzard works in grinding those pellets up and the resulting lead salts entering into their bloodstream causing lead poisoning. This poisoning pathway has been researched extensively in many bird species worldwide. Those pieces of lead dug out on your detector days are not likely to be eaten by birds as grit. 

Yes amazing how any Game birds survive living on large shoots shooting Lead five days a week that have done for decades.

[jall25]

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

The key risk is various bird species eating lead shot as grit because if they eat that lead shot they will inevitably suffer sub-lethal or lethal effects as a direct result due to how the bird gizzard works in grinding those pellets up and the resulting lead salts entering into their bloodstream causing lead poisoning. This poisoning pathway has been researched extensively in many bird species worldwide. Those pieces of lead dug out on your detector days are not likely to be eaten by birds as grit. 

 

Is that the reason why the HSE is looking to ban it though ? I dont think it is is it - its because of risk to humans i believe ?

[Scully]

2 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said:

Yes amazing how any Game birds survive living on large shoots shooting Lead five days a week that have done for decades.

Quite. None of it adds up. 
It’s old news now but well worth repeating…..We were told by BASC’s then head honcho that ducks and fowl were digesting lead and dying in swathes, but when asked where and who was finding these birds that ‘well we all know how rare it is to find dead birds’ , but failed to explain how, if that was the case, dead birds were being found in significant numbers to make the claim in the first place. 🤷‍♂️

Turns out some test procedures included force feeding lead shot via funnels  into fowl, which then proved fatally toxic. Really? Who’d have thought. 
We also had illogical legislation which included ( if I recall ) making it illegal to shoot duck with lead but perfectly ok to shoot pheasant with lead over the same piece of land. Thats got to be worth another 🤷‍♂️ emoji, surely. 

[Weihrauch17]

8 minutes ago, Scully said:

Quite. None of it adds up. 
It’s old news now but well worth repeating…..We were told by BASC’s then head honcho that ducks and fowl were digesting lead and dying in swathes, but when asked where and who was finding these birds that ‘well we all know how rare it is to find dead birds’ , but failed to explain how, if that was the case, dead birds were being found in significant numbers to make the claim in the first place. 🤷‍♂️

Turns out some test procedures included force feeding lead shot via funnels  into fowl, which then proved fatally toxic. Really? Who’d have thought. 
We also had illogical legislation which included ( if I recall ) making it illegal to shoot duck with lead but perfectly ok to shoot pheasant with lead over the same piece of land. Thats got to be worth another 🤷‍♂️ emoji, surely. 

Yep it is on a par with Net Zero, all absolute ********.

[oldypigeonpopper]

2 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

The key risk is various bird species eating lead shot as grit because if they eat that lead shot they will inevitably suffer sub-lethal or lethal effects as a direct result due to how the bird gizzard works in grinding those pellets up and the resulting lead salts entering into their bloodstream causing lead poisoning. This poisoning pathway has been researched extensively in many bird species worldwide. Those pieces of lead dug out on your detector days are not likely to be eaten by birds as grit. 

Hello, Yes your right it is more to do with the Digest of lead shot 👍

[Konor]

4 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

The key risk is various bird species eating lead shot as grit because if they eat that lead shot they will inevitably suffer sub-lethal or lethal effects as a direct result due to how the bird gizzard works in grinding those pellets up and the resulting lead salts entering into their bloodstream causing lead poisoning. This poisoning pathway has been researched extensively in many bird species worldwide. Those pieces of lead dug out on your detector days are not likely to be eaten by birds as grit. 

Are there any figures in the extensive research carried out that puts the danger of lead shot ingestion on wild bird populations in perspective ? Likewise are there any figures that quantify the extent of the threat that exists from the ingestion of lead shot contaminated meat by humans ? Without such supporting documentation there will always be the suspicion that there are alternative motives in having a lead shot ban enforced.

Is BASC’s intention still to fight any legal restrictions on the use of lead shot despite its continual highlighting of the perceived risk to game birds through lead shot ingestion ?

It has been stated elsewhere that BASC has been fighting lead ammunition bans since 1983. I see little evidence of that in your continual insistence of the detrimental effects on wild game populations by lead shot ingestion while gritting.
Is it possible to fight a future lead shot ban while at the same time giving ammunition to those who would support such a ban by highlighting perceived risks of lead shot use with no supporting scientific data ?

Edited 7 hours ago by Konor
Addition

[BobbyH]

BASC, fighting a lead shot ban!? 😂😂😂

Seems like the ‘Voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting’ has now turned into a ‘Compulsory transition to non toxic shot which some guns can’t take, doesn’t have the same ballistic effects and is not as readily available on the market in all calibres yet within an actual budget friendly price range’

I do seem to ponder what BASC’s  motive in this ‘Voluntary’ movement was and how many volunteered. 

One now seems to think that many people could and more than likely will give uk their sport and hobby because of it all?

Well done BASC, Well done.