Beretta 694 + Gamebore Quad Seals + Modified Choke = naff patterns

[Mike_ESK]

As title suggests, I was having issues with the pattern of my 3/8 chokes - Teague answered they were blowing out. So I bought some 1/2,s and they worked well. Well enough to put in a good score at a hard ground and I out shot King George himself at the sportrap last week. 

I've used White gold 7.5 28G for years, today I realised the boys gave me the quad seal ones instead of plastic wad ones. My god the patterns on these things are utter ****, blowing out and nowhere near the patterns than the plastic wad ones do.

My observations with the 694 is it seems like it's a really solid gun, about 30k rounds through this one, I've noticed some odd behaviours. At range the pattern seems less useable, or seems to be super patchy for some reason. Teague said the Tribore system - the forcing cones, on the 694 was why 3/8 doesn't work after a point, it seems that the patterns fall apart much sooner than say on a 682 Gold E with the same cartidges.  I watched James Attwood shoot the sportrap today with 3/4 out a 694, shoot a 98 at Willow Farm today and 24 on the pool shoot.  

I blanked whole birds today, all of them distant birds, guess I need to stick with plastic wads or go to 3/4 for fibre to hold together

[Poor Shot]

Without wishing to offend, is there any chance that it's you missing and not the gun/choke/cartridge combo?

Only way to tell for sure is to test them on some pattern plates at longer ranges.

Until this week, I shot a 694 and 3/8 choke combo for about 12k cartridges of all wad types and shot sizes. I hit some pretty impressive targets, including a 75 yard battue which required 30 feet of lead and I didn't find the 3/8 choke lacking.

If you are ultimately unsatisfied with the QS white golds, I'll give you £15 for the remainder of them 😉.  I'll be doing you a favour..

[Mike_ESK]

48 minutes ago, Poor Shot said:

Without wishing to offend, is there any chance that it's you missing and not the gun/choke/cartridge combo?

Only way to tell for sure is to test them on some pattern plates at longer ranges.

Until this week, I shot a 694 and 3/8 choke combo for about 12k cartridges of all wad types and shot sizes. I hit some pretty impressive targets, including a 75 yard battue which required 30 feet of lead and I didn't find the 3/8 choke lacking.

If you are ultimately unsatisfied with the QS white golds, I'll give you £15 for the remainder of them 😉.  I'll be doing you a favour..

Of course, you are correct I could have missed. We all have off days. Just when you shoot 10k+ a year you get a feel for if a bird should break or not. You know if you are going to miss before you pull the trigger. Looking over my scorecard 3 out of 11 stands were pattern issues, I made changes to each shot to try to find the correct spot. My squad even commented I never looked off, nothing looked wrong, just it didn't break. When it did break a distant bird it was chippy, and by distant it was the same sort of distance the 3/8's fell off at possibly 5ish more to 45 yards. I've done testing with the 3/8's enough lately, all shooting long birds.

But yes, I could of equally had a bad day. I do recall using them last year for a sim game day and thinking i should be breaking more birds with them. That sim day has sim pairs at 35-60 yards and I've not found a single fibre round that has performed at distance that plastics does with the 694.

They are superb UP to a range for me it seems. 

What are your choke brands for the 3/8? What distances are you shooting out to with them? 

I should mention Teague even said that the 3/8 was not great o the 694 and to use 1/2 or 5/8

Edited Sunday at 19:43 by Mike_ESK

[retromlc]

Firstly I'm not a good shot, so this is just my thoughts. If you can beat sir GD, then you'd know if and why your missing.

Maybe the 3/8 with that barrel tech (694 is a lower tech than the DT11)

maybe if it's over 35 yard just use 3/4 and maybe 5/8.

With my CG with OE 3/8 I have caught some distance screamers , but generally I use 3/8 & 1/4 out to 35/40 yard beyond that I use 1/2 and 5/8, if I'm on point the breaks are not chips 

[Mike_ESK]

2 minutes ago, retromlc said:

Firstly I'm not a good shot, so this is just my thoughts. If you can beat sir GD, then you'd know if and why your missing.

Maybe the 3/8 with that barrel tech (694 is a lower tech than the DT11)

maybe if it's over 35 yard just use 3/4 and maybe 5/8.

With my CG with OE 3/8 I have caught some distance screamers , but generally I use 3/8 & 1/4 out to 35/40 yard beyond that I use 1/2 and 5/8, if I'm on point the breaks are not chips 

Beat him on the sportrap, not in the sporting, before anyone thinks I'm actually that good!

The 694 does indeed have 380mm vs 450mm forcing cones. Something about that makes 3/8 in Teague spec chokes fall apart. I was using the Beretta chokes today in 1/2. 

I just found the fibre QS to be a bit meh in my 694 with 18.6 bore.

[Poor Shot]

12 minutes ago, Mike_ESK said:

Of course, you are correct I could have missed. We all have off days. Just when you shoot 10k+ a year you get a feel for if a bird should break or not. You know if you are going to miss before you pull the trigger. Looking over my scorecard 3 out of 11 stands were pattern issues, I made changes to each shot to try to find the correct spot. My squad even commented I never looked off, nothing looked wrong, just it didn't break. When it did break a distant bird it was chippy, and by distant it was the same sort of distance the 3/8's fell off at possibly 5ish more to 45 yards. I've done testing with the 3/8's enough lately, all shooting long birds.

But yes, I could of equally had a bad day. I do recall using them last year for a sim game day and thinking i should be breaking more birds with them. That sim day has sim pairs at 35-60 yards and I've not found a single fibre round that has performed at distance that plastics does with the 694.

They are superb UP to a range for me it seems. 

What are your choke brands for the 3/8? What distances are you shooting out to with them? 

Off the shelf teague stainless steel extended. Same as yourself I believe?

I also shoot around 10k a year roughly 50/50 registered and practice. I'm sure we've all had days where a target you broke convincingly last week just didn't break the same this week with everything else (seemingly) the same.

I've since swapped the 694 for a DT11 but retained the 3/8 teague chokes. Just yesterday I was shooting with a coach and hit a screaming 75 yard battue with two consecutive shots and that was with Fiocchi TT1 fibres, the absolute cheapest and lowest quality cartridge I believe exists right now.

IMO its very rarely, if ever the cartridge and always the shooter and I am a typical tradesman who blames the tools.

Its not impossible that the QS works a lot better with the over and back bored Beretta barrels than standard fibre wads and is actually achieving the 1500 FPS quoted rather than the 1100 FPS most fibre cartridges achieve regardless of whats claimed meaning you were missing in front. Discrepancies in the speed of the cartridge would become more noticeable at distance but I'm clutching at straws with that one. 

[Mike_ESK]

2 minutes ago, Poor Shot said:

Off the shelf teague stainless steel extended. Same as yourself I believe?

I also shoot around 10k a year roughly 50/50 registered and practice. I'm sure we've all had days where a target you broke convincingly last week just didn't break the same this week with everything else (seemingly) the same.

I've since swapped the 694 for a DT11 but retained the 3/8 teague chokes. Just yesterday I was shooting with a coach and hit a screaming 75 yard battue with two consecutive shots and that was with Fiocchi TT1 fibres, the absolute cheapest and lowest quality cartridge I believe exists right now.

IMO its very rarely, if ever the cartridge and always the shooter and I am a typical tradesman who blames the tools.

Its not impossible that the QS works a lot better with the over and back bored Beretta barrels than standard fibre wads and is actually achieving the 1500 FPS quoted rather than the 1100 FPS most fibre cartridges achieve regardless of whats claimed meaning you were missing in front. Discrepancies in the speed of the cartridge would become more noticeable at distance but I'm clutching at straws with that one. 

Titanium ones, simply because I liked the lighter front end but material should not make a lick of difference. 

I went to West Kent, Dartford, Willow Farm, several times with several ammo types, with several birds and you could to the yard measure out the 3/8 falling apart at 45 yard. Put the 1/4 in or the 1/2 and I'm back to hitting birds at distance. 

Just today, the variable today was the fibre cartidges. Attwood, JBD and a few others all swear by 3/4 and I can see why. My shot game wont be hindered by it, My long game will benefit from it.

I spoke to someone who had the same chokes in a DT11, amazing breaks. AAA class shooter. The moment I put the others back in, back to breaking again.

I 100% agree it is the user error in most of these instances. You could see from my card there were birds at distance that just refuse to break today, when I did chippy. Bring it in 5 yards and it was killed.

I shot a 20 on the sportrap today dropped a pair, like a dunce, but 3 times there was a overhead bird that was borderline unshootable in the pairs. All those fair misses. 

I shall grab some plastic wad black golds for next week.

 

Here is what Teague said

 

 

 

[mpmilo]

When I had my 694 I used factory optima HP  in 3/8s  for sportrap / compact and any grounds with close to medium targets, 1/2s for any long range stuff. I personally used mid range cartridges up to 45 yds and Rossas past that.

I had a go with teagues, but found the supplied chokes patterned better.

Edited Sunday at 22:44 by mpmilo

[vmaxphil]

Are you trying to talk yourself into a "new gun day" 😁

[Poor Shot]

14 minutes ago, vmaxphil said:

Are you trying to talk yourself into a "new gun day" 😁

Agreed.

Just get the DT11 and call it a day... 😅

More than twice the cost of the 694 but IMO it's more than twice the gun. I wouldn't have believed that before trying one based on just how good the 694 is but the DT11 is on another level. Almost feels like it's doing the shooting for you. It may have been new gun syndrome but my first shoot with the DT11 was at 90% vs average low 80's long term for the 694. 

It feels a lot more sure footed and planted than the 694 did, perhaps at the expense of a little maneuverability but I didn't notice that on yesterdays shoot which had two stands of fast, on report quartering birds. The type of target where you see it and shoot it with plenty of gun speed but next to no thought. 

It has a steadiness on longer targets that the 694 just didn't have which I think is because the DT11 feels a lot bigger in the hands, the action is wider and as a result it feels like you have a lot more gun in your hands and a lot more control over it. It's not too much gun either which a previous 725 pro sport felt like so it doesn't encourage you to be lazy with it. 

[Charliedog]

I think you're losing your mind, if the patterns fine with quarter and half then it will be fine with 3/8, all this talk of pattern  blowing is nonsense, don't care how many carts you shoot but to me you make no sense, no offence meant.

[Smokersmith]

Pattern the combinations and put the debate to rest .. would be one option!

[TIGHTCHOKE]

7 hours ago, Smokersmith said:

Pattern the combinations and put the debate to rest .. would be one option!

But that would require a large pattern plate at a substantial distance and good shooting.