Yorkshire Pudding Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 >>We are going to hit close to £1 a litre by the summer. Want petrol prices >>to come down? We need to take some intelligent, united action. >> >>This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the "don't buy petrol on a certain day" >>campaign that was going around last April or May! The oil companies just >>laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to hurt ourselves >>by >>refusing to buy petrol. It was more of an inconvenience to us than it was >>a >>problem for them. >> >>BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can really >>work. Please read it and join in! >> >>Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to >>think >>that the cost of a litre is CHEAP at 77p -80p, we need to take aggressive >>action to teach them that BUYERS control the marketplace not sellers. With >>the price of petrol going up more each day, we consumers need to take >>action. The only way we are going to see the price of petrol come down is >>if >>we hit someone in the pocket by not purchasing their Petrol! And we can do >>that WITHOUT hurting ourselves. >> >>Here's the idea: >> >>For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase ANY petrol from the two biggest >>oil companies (which now are one), ESSO and BP. If they are not selling >>any >>petrol, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they reduce their >>prices, the other companies will have to follow suit. >> >>But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of Esso and BP >>petrol buyers. It's really simple to do!! Now, don't whimp out on me at >>this >>point...keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions >>of >>people! I am sending this note to a lot of people. If each of you send it >>to >>at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)... and those 300 send it to at least ten >>more (300 x 10 = 3,000) ... and so on, by the time the message reaches the >>sixth generation of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION >>consumers! If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten >>friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted! If it goes >>one level further, you guessed it... .. THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!! >>Again,all You have to do is send this to 10 people. >> >>That's all.(and not buy at ESSO/BP) How long would all that take? If each >>of >>us sends this email out to ten more people within one day of receipt, all >>300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next 8 >>days!!! >>I'll bet you didn't think you and I had that much potential, did you! >>Acting >>together we can make >>a difference. If this makes sense to you, please pass this message on. >>PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE 69p a LITRE RANGE >>Action: >>It's easy to make this happen. Just forward this email, and buy your >>petrol >>at Shell, Tesco, Sainsburys, Morrisons (75p)Jet etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 You'll end up spending more money searching for fuel at a preferred petrol station then any savings. In fact I have found that Esso invariably have the best prices. The fact is that the majority of the fuel price is the levels of tax imposed by the government. Check out the duty + Vat (combined to make Tax on fuel). Sure oil companies are making profits but the huge bulk of the money goes to the government, and for what? For lousy health care, **** policing and most importantly ensuring prescott can keep his 3 jags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 YP, buy a diesel and run it on cherry or chip fat. I would never, never do anything illegal myself, but you could start the e-mailing and urge others to. LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkshire Pudding Posted June 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 LB ......cookin on fat ...... all the best yis yp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 YP it works a treat but you will smell like a chip van! Yours Sincerely LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ernyha Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 Wondered why all the dogs in the street followed me. :*) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Nice Idea YP but totally impractical, Bit like Pyramid selling on a reverse scale.. I am afraid the government have us over a barrel (if you excuse the pun) besides if a consumer embargo reduced the sales volume of the Big Players they would simply push their prices up and the smaller independant would, sooner or later do the same. I am afraid we are stuck with high fuel prices for the next 40 years or so until the current known global reserves start dwindle and a alternative vegetable oil based fuel is found... ( Oilseed rape) Now this will undoubtably cause a PIGEON Explosion and all the better for us! So conversely we should all be accelerating this scenario and buying as much petrol as we possibly can. What we really need to do is lobby Parliament to put international pressure on the Americans as they are the major users in the world ( 4% of the worlds population using 40 % of the worlds Energy) The big American oil fields reached a peak of production in the mid 70,s which is the real reason they are always very keen to invade Oil producing Countries. If you use the excuse of deposing a tyranical despot as a bogus reason for military action then why havent America invaded Zimbabwe? Cus they havent got any oil thats why! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 FM I can only agree with your statement 100% YP Good rant mate, and I do sympathise, but your plan to boycot certain brands is seriously flawed. Although there are several smaller less well known brands available, the majority, if not all, buy the petrol in the same manner as say Asda. At a wholesale rate, from guess who? The margin in road fuels is very small, thats why most now have a general store attached, which is part of a chain. What you probably dont know is that the fuel transactions are carried out by the shop staff, as part of the deal between the oil company who own the site and the retailer who runs the shop. Just look round at the number of filling stations that have ceased to trade. Sorry but the real baddies are H.M. Government, and a booming China. tax and supply being out stripped by demand. It is perfectly possible to run diesel engines on cooking oil, but not for long. Without the lubricants and additives which go into genuine diesel, you will soon find the need for a new injector pump, this will set you back about £1000. Mix say 5% with real diesel and you should not experience any problems, but then its hardly worth it. If you want to save money on road fuel consider converting to Autogas. The cost of conversion varies, dependant on vehicle age and type, but £1000 to £2000 is a fair ball park figure. We are currently selling Autogas at 35 pence per litre, you can do your own sums. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 I Have done 25K in my def 90 mainly cherry and cooking oil. No problems. LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Try it without the cherry, see how long it lasts! webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quercus Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 May be a dumb question, but what is "cherry"? Webber, how stable is the price of gas?, is it being held at an artificially low price just to get people interested?, do you see it being as competitive in five years time? Sorry for all of the questions but I am giving serious thought to having our quads converted to LPG. Everything that I hear about it is good, it just seems a little too good to be true, just looking for the catch. Q Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leon Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 I work for one of the above oil companies and they are at the moment debating what to do about this e-mail thats circulating so this could possibly be a real way to get at them!! maybe we will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aled_cky Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 farmer's and lorry driver's should go on strike soon Tony Blair might go out of his position on the 10th so the news has said due to the rise in fuel prices.. Aled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Webber, I have done 6 months on fat. I am a diesel fitter of 26 years experience and in no way associated with any gas conversion companies. The important factor is filtration on both fuel and engine oil. Centrifugal filters allow unbeliveable mileage on a oil change. I have heard rumours of a system allowing a diesel gas mix, any truth in this? Aled, cherry is a diesel with a much lower level of tax used by farmers a I believe some sort of dispensation for tarmac layers ? although it is not as clean regarding emmision testing for MOT's. Drain and refill with a fuel system purge before MOT due. LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyni Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 Cheery's is otherwise known as 'RED' diesel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunnerman Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 So running on cherry (red) diesel must be illegal regardless of whether or not its mixed because less duty is paid on it why not just go the whole hog and run on cherry Rgds andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 Quercus Cherry or red diesel, is low grade diesel fuel to which a dye has been added to indicate that no duty has been paid on it. The dye obviously gives a visual indication, but the residue can be traced by customs should they choose to dip the tank or swab the exhaust. If you are caught avoiding the duty, the fines can be high and vehicles can be confiscated. I cant five you an honest answer to the stabiliy of LPG price, Im an engineer, not a politician, but I can tell you that I have been converting engines to LPG since I was 18, Im now 48. The current level of duty on LPG for road fuel is 4.5 pence per litre, this is set to rise in September by 1.5 pence (I think); but the duty on petrol and diesel is also going up by 4 pence per litre (I think) Propane is a byproduct of oil refining, some also comes ashore with the natural gas. The product has to be sold and used, there is considerable storage, but its not endless. Propane is a comodity just like oil, and is also traded. My company are major players in the cylinder gas business. Prices have risen to risen to us by over £60 per tonne over prices for the same period last year. Cylinder gas prices have been increased recently, yet interestingly the price of autogas has remained static. This is nothing to do with the oil companies, but the retailers are taking the hit on the chin. Many use fuel as a honey pot to attract shoppers. Our glorious government have signed up to the Kyoto agreement, and promised to reduce various emmissions, thats why the duty is reduced. LPG converted vehicles are less polluting and run quieter, lubricating oil lasts considerably longer. The only serious negative is the cost of conversion, and finding a space to put the gas tank. Hope this helps webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 Lurcherboy I dont doubt your experience or credentials, but, you can filter chip oil all you want, even buy virgin oil if you want, but it wont have the lubricating properties that are added to modern diesel fuel. One of our customers used to collect cylinders a couple of times a week, he ran a Dihatsu 4x4, and pulled a trailer, and was the steriotypical scouse wide boy. One day I noticed an odor when he started up, and I asked him if he was running on chip fat. He informed me that he was and that he had been for almost a year. I asked him if he was mixing it with diesel, and was greeted with **** that for a game of soldiers. I advised him to start mixing it or face the consequences. He also told me of various people who were doing the same as he, and none had reported any problems. So be it. Only a few weeks later he appeared in a borrowed transit van. The Dihatsu engine was in bits, injectors this, pump that etc I even got blamed for not telling him sooner! The job cost him in excess of £1000. Mix the stuff in small proportions and you will be ok; dont and you wont! Why do you think that the bio diesel has not really caught on? because they cant put enough rape oil in the diesel to reduce the price to make the price attractive, and you still get all the particulates that are one of the main pollutants associated with diesel. I know that I am biased, but at the moment the only real alternative fuel is LPG. It is possible to add propane into the inlet air of a diesel engine. This will induce a power boost and a cleaner burn of the diesel. You still use diesel, just less of it. In America this equipment is promoted as power enhansing, which it is. In the UK is promoted as a gas conversion, which it is not. I know that there are several companies making various claims. The system does work, but only for a while. My companies vehicle fleet invludes two 7.!/2 tonners, obviously they are diesel. We pay butons for the gas, but the diesels are staying that way. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunnerman Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 Am I right that diesel engines dont have spark plugs only a heating plug so the cost of converting diesel to lpg is extremly expensive because ther is no spark at the cylinders to ignite the gas and extra wiring and plugs need fitting could be wrong but I thought that I had read it somewhere Rgds Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyni Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 Not to start an argument but is it correct that red diesel is low grade, I was under the impression that it was used mostly in agricultural vehicles. I wouldn't have thought that farmers would have put low grade fuel into tractor/combine engines etc as they cost a fortune compared to our cars. Only a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrie0 Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 I saw a comparison test in car mechanics magazine a year ago where they tested lpg vs petrol ,lpg is cheaper but they got less mpg out of the lpg than the petrol , when they added it all up there wasnt much difference in price / performance mpg it was more down to better emmissions on the lpg . Red diesel we used to use at one of my old work places for agricultural use only ie mowers/tractors ,dumper truck etc . One of the blokes used to run on red all the time with his landrover but got caught using it and fined . they are supposed to be able to detect trace elements of it for a long time after you have used it even after many tankfulls of white standard diesel . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 Gunnerman There are numerous reasons as to why you cant convert a diesel to LPG. It is possible, but at considerable expense, the engine must be completeley re-engineered. I would have to spend all day to explain why this and that. The simple answer is, if you currently have a diesel and want the benefits of LPG, then junk the diesel and go petrol, then get a quality conversion fitted by some one who really does know what hes doing. Dont get the cheapest conversion that you can find. webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remytherussell Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 It is illegal to run a road car / truck on "red" diesel. If you are caught the fines are astronomical as you are depriving HM Customs of their pound of flesh. We all know HMC have greater powers than the police. RTR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 BarrieO You do get slightly less equivelent MPG on LPG against petrol. This is because the calorific value of LPG is lower than that of petol. Therefore for the same power out, more fuel must go in, simple. LPG costs around 35 pence per litre. Petrol costs around 90 pence per litre. With a decent conversion you should at least expect to halve your fuel bill, Im not sure how much difference some people want. To be fair Mr. average is probably better off staying put, unless he intends to keep the car for around 5 years. However some one with a 4x4, doing average mileage, or a car doing high miles, will be better off by around 50%, not bad eh! webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrie0 Posted June 8, 2004 Report Share Posted June 8, 2004 It is as you say a matter of choice of recouping back your expense on the conversion over x amount of years ,but you will be doing the enviroment some good . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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