Looking for a dog

[Iaindp]

Hi again All,

 

Has anyone got any experience of working sprockers? I'm torn between a cocker ('er indoors choice) and a springer (my choice). Is a sprocker a realistic compromise? and can they hunt / retreive / sit on the peg as well? or do they have the best and worst bits of both?

 

Cheers

Iain

[digger]

I know this doesnt really help but if you are looking for a dog why not try Croydon on a Friday night ?

[jerico]

I know this doesnt really help but if you are looking for a dog why not try Croydon on a Friday night ?

 

He wants a Spaniel not a Rottweiler

[digger]

The size of Croydon " girls " earings makes their ears droop like spaniels. None are house trained and will whine if left alone ( a radio tuned to Kiss usually calms them over night ). They like to chew on a bone and once shown the entrance to the benefit center will produce pups of many colours at an early age. The chocolate pup is favoured

[col s10]

The size of Croydon " girls " earings makes their ears droop like spaniels. None are house trained and will whine if left alone ( a radio tuned to Kiss usually calms them over night ). They like to chew on a bone and once shown the entrance to the benefit center will produce pups of many colours at an early age. The chocolate pup is favoured

loads in south wales wait for it

[berettaman1]

The size of Croydon " girls " earings makes their ears droop like spaniels. None are house trained and will whine if left alone ( a radio tuned to Kiss usually calms them over night ). They like to chew on a bone and once shown the entrance to the benefit center will produce pups of many colours at an early age. The chocolate pup is favoured

Hee Hee Hee , Digger my mate you have summed it up, SPOT ON!!OOPS musnt, complain, dont want to be accused of being a MUSLIM!

[Browning]

Hi again All,

 

Has anyone got any experience of working sprockers? I'm torn between a cocker ('er indoors choice) and a springer (my choice). Is a sprocker a realistic compromise? and can they hunt / retreive / sit on the peg as well? or do they have the best and worst bits of both?

 

Cheers

Iain

 

Back on track for you Iain.

 

I have a sprocker and am chuffed to bits with him so far. This is his first season and so far

he is turning out to be a very worthy dog.

 

The only reason I went for a sprocker is because this litter happened to be there when I started looking for a spaniel and I was given pick of the litter.

 

My particular dog has a cocker sire and springer dam, both are known to me and are good workers on the various shoots that I beat and shoot on.

 

He is hunting well and getting better with exerience, he's a brilliant swimmer, retreiving OK at the moment, but again experience should help

with this. On the peg he is as steady as any other dog on the shoot.

 

BUT....this is my dog, and all dogs are different. It is all down to the time and effort that you put in to him.

 

My opinion would be, if you know both parents are steady working dogs then go for it.

 

Put the time and effort into him/her and you should come out with a good working spaniel.

[Iaindp]

Hi again All,

 

Has anyone got any experience of working sprockers? I'm torn between a cocker ('er indoors choice) and a springer (my choice). Is a sprocker a realistic compromise? and can they hunt / retreive / sit on the peg as well? or do they have the best and worst bits of both?

 

Cheers

Iain

 

Back on track for you Iain.

 

I have a sprocker and am chuffed to bits with him so far. This is his first season and so far

he is turning out to be a very worthy dog.

 

The only reason I went for a sprocker is because this litter happened to be there when I started looking for a spaniel and I was given pick of the litter.

 

My particular dog has a cocker sire and springer dam, both are known to me and are good workers on the various shoots that I beat and shoot on.

 

He is hunting well and getting better with exerience, he's a brilliant swimmer, retreiving OK at the moment, but again experience should help

with this. On the peg he is as steady as any other dog on the shoot.

 

BUT....this is my dog, and all dogs are different. It is all down to the time and effort that you put in to him.

 

My opinion would be, if you know both parents are steady working dogs then go for it.

 

Put the time and effort into him/her and you should come out with a good working spaniel.

 

 

 

 

Thanks Browning - the first grown up response! although the others gave me a chuckle.

 

So do you think that if the same level of training was given to a Sprocker, it should be no better or worse than a pure springer / cocker ?

 

Cheers

Iain

[potshot]

I think it goes something like this................

 

Certain breeders have spent nearly 100 years or so perfecting a breed to do a specific job, like a cocker, a springer, a labrador or a golden retriever. Pure strains, selective breeding to eradicate health problems (yes, some of which may have been caused by inbreeding...) and to improve the specific qualities of that breed.

 

Then along comes 'jack the lad', who knows better than anybody else, and crosses labs and spaniels etc., etc. and everyone that he turns out always has the best qualities of both breeds, never has any health problems and never causes any new problems. And then he always argue that all dogs are cross breeds otherwise we would still be using wolves, so whats the problem. Cross breeding is always more of a gamble than not, you can throw all the hip scoring and eye testing results out of the window because they become meaningless, using pedigree parents is also meaningless.

 

But then, just maybe, I am biased because I have spent 20 years researching my breed and carefully breeding for temperament and working ability whilst trying to avoid poor hips, eye problems, epilepsy etc., etc. This is to produce good working stock, the best of which can win FT's and do get the championship every now and then.

[al4x]

I think what potshot and Browning have added pretty much sums this up. You can get very good sprockers etc but I've also seen some that are pretty bad. With buying a pure breed with a pedigree it lets you look back along the dogs breeding which should with a bit of research give you an idea of the working ability.

With a cross you can if you are lucky get to see both parents but normally just the mother then you have to try and guess what the conformation etc will be like from the pup which can be difficult as you never quite know what they will turn out looking like.

Personally for a working dog I'd not buy a cross unless I was prepared to keep it as a pet if it didn't turn into what I wanted, IMHO look for a dog with a pedigree and a history you can look into. Over the lifetime costs of a dog the purchase price is one of the lower costs so really you want to make sure you get the dog you really want as it is a long term commitment.

[Paul in North Lincs.]

The size of Croydon " girls " earings makes their ears droop like spaniels. None are house trained and will whine if left alone ( a radio tuned to Kiss usually calms them over night ). They like to chew on a bone and once shown the entrance to the benefit center will produce pups of many colours at an early age. The chocolate pup is favoured

 

hahaha hahaha :lol: ****

 

good un!!!!!!......thats made my day :angry: :lol:

[Browning]

So do you think that if the same level of training was given to a Sprocker, it should be no better or worse than a pure springer / cocker ?

 

Cheers

Iain

 

In my opinion, and experience, I would say yes.

 

I am a firm believer that almost any suitably bred dog, with the correct amount of time and effort put into training, can be made into

a reasonable gundog that would suit most of our needs. (I'm not talking field trials here, just a 'reasonable' rough shooting/beating/peg dog).

 

I am also a firm believer that the best bred dog in the world will be no more use than a fireside lap dog if the correct amount of

time and effort are not put into training.

 

My current GSP dog was a 9 month old rescue dog, with no notable working lineage noted on his papers, a pure show dog that we took pity on.

He has turned out to be an amazingly good worker. However, he has had a LOT of time put into his training.

 

Whatever you go for, pure bred or first cross, be prepared to spend lots of time on him/her and you'll be fine.

[Guest The Outlaw]

For my own personal preferance I would try to find a Springer but as the others have said check the lines first.

 

Inter line breeding can throw up some nutty almost untrainable dogs.

 

My springer was as steady as a rock but I just got just lucky with her.

 

She was taken off a farmer in Wales for misstreating her, andthen rehomed with my sister.

 

I then badgered her into letting me have her, she finally gave in as where she was moving to a house share where there

 

were no dogs allowed.

 

I got her, and by chance found she was a fully trained gun dog.

 

She was asleep and when I came home from shooting and was cleaning the guns she heard the gun close and sat up with

 

her ears pricked up ready for action.

 

And together we went on to many happy days of shooting.

 

Tony

[Iaindp]

For my own personal preferance I would try to find a Springer but as the others have said check the lines first.

 

Inter line breeding can throw up some nutty almost untrainable dogs.

 

My springer was as steady as a rock but I just got just lucky with her.

 

She was taken off a farmer in Wales for misstreating her, andthen rehomed with my sister.

 

I then badgered her into letting me have her, she finally gave in as where she was moving to a house share where there

 

were no dogs allowed.

 

I got her, and by chance found she was a fully trained gun dog.

 

She was asleep and when I came home from shooting and was cleaning the guns she heard the gun close and sat up with

 

her ears pricked up ready for action.

 

And together we went on to many happy days of shooting.

 

Tony

 

 

 

Nice story Tony!

I'm not after a champion or show dog, just a shooting companion and peg dog / pet for the kids. Picking up on one of your points, how could I be sure that any dog I buy isn't inter line bred? even if it has papers?

 

Also, how can we be sure that what is written in the papers is true i.e. how would you know just from the dog's sire's name that he was actually the sire of the dog? Couldn't anybody just fill in the forms or are they done buy a vet and if so, how does the Vet know who the sire / dam were without having to ask the owner??

 

Might seem dumb questions but I'm still only at the research stage!

 

Cheers

Iain

[potshot]

You can check the pedigree details - there are various web sites that have databases for the different breeds. You can check with the KC. A few phone calls to the pertinent breeders can confirm the details. What you are doing it absolutely correct - lots of research. Find a few breeders close to you and go and talk to them. Make sure when you do buy you get a contract from the breeder or that you do n ot part with your check without having the pedigree in your hand and signed over to you.

 

You can find breeders (without any recommendation) from the KC, www.gundogclub.co.uk , Sporting Gundogs, etc etc

[al4x]

You can't guarantee whats on the papers but it gives something to go on rather than nothing. A lot of puppies that come from supposedly pedigree parents but don't get registered are accidental matings and you can never be entirely sure of what you are told.

I've known more than a few instances where the dogs were closely related and really you don't want pups like it.

If you are after a peg dog I'd seriously recommend not buying a springer. If its your first proper training attempt they are very hard work to get steady.

[Blackbart]

I think you need to define what you want the dog for?

 

If you want the dog to go beating with and walked up shooting then you need a spaniel breed.On the other hand if you want a peg dog for retrieving shot game you want a lab,they are two very different disciplines and trying to train one to do both competently will be very difficult.I can see where your coming from by thinking a cross will combine the best of both but it very rarely works out that way.

 

So just get rid of the wife and get a lab & a springer

[Iaindp]

I think you need to define what you want the dog for?

 

If you want the dog to go beating with and walked up shooting then you need a spaniel breed.On the other hand if you want a peg dog for retrieving shot game you want a lab,they are two very different disciplines and trying to train one to do both competently will be very difficult.I can see where your coming from by thinking a cross will combine the best of both but it very rarely works out that way.

 

So just get rid of the wife and get a lab & a springer

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Blackbart,

I want a dog that will be a pet (7 year old and 15 year old kids), a hunter, retreiver, peg dog and shooting companion! I realise that if I'm expecting him to be a jack of all trades, he'll be a master of none but I'm hoping he can be semi decent at everything but that it's not fair to expect much more with the amount of training time I'll have to give him.

 

I like the losing the wife angle. Hadn't thought of that. Good idea!

 

Regards

Iain

[potshot]

Just a thought - as a first dog I think I would go for a retriever. Learn how to train one discipline (retrieving/peg dog) then move onto to the dual discipline hunt/retrieve spaniel (by which time the missus may be ready to accept a second dog) alternatively return to plan 'Blackbart' :lol:

[lurcherboy]

The size of Croydon " girls " earings makes their ears droop like spaniels. None are house trained and will whine if left alone ( a radio tuned to Kiss usually calms them over night ). They like to chew on a bone and once shown the entrance to the benefit center will produce pups of many colours at an early age. The chocolate pup is favoured

 

 

*****

 

 

Forget what your wife wants unless she gets up at stupid o clock and works it at a shoot.

 

1st dog if your inexperienced, a black lab bitch form good working lines

 

 

 

 

 

LB

[Stealth Stalker]

I was beating with Iain today & we had a good chat, he's explained his ideal scenario dog, but do they really exist?

 

I could see him getting on fine with a springer or cocker for his rough shooting / beating in thick cover,but how are those breeds sitting at a peg/ in a pigeon hide all day & pushing through the cover crops?

 

I've seen a springer clear a whole drive before its even started I'm not dissing any of the breeds, I just think different dogs for different jobs. I love springers & cockers for their 100% attitude to work., but personally I prefer the steadyness of a lab/retreiver.

 

SS

[Millomite]

Steadiness is all to do with training, not breed!

[al4x]

Steadiness is all to do with training, not breed!

 

 

partly, its far easier to train a steady lab than a springer. To sit at a peg and watch birds come down really seems to drive springers up the wall