Six weeks...

[Wookie]

I'm faced with a massive dilemma right now. Ted has turned into a right little sod this last week and that has made my fiancee really annoyed with him and me.

 

To give you all a bit of background, Ted's an eight month old ESS and he's been reasonably good up to now with picking things up (coming back to whistle, sitting to hand signal, basic other commands like "Down"), but at the beginning of the week he decided he was going to not come back to us during a walk. He decided that he was going to carry on playing and running away when we got close.

 

I did the usual "turn around and walk the other way/prey instinct" trick and nothing happened. He decided that he would just carry on doing his thing. Eventually I trapped him in someone's drive and he went home on a short lead. Since then he's been on a long lead at all times (20') and today he had a little scamper about and came back when called (just) three times. Eventually I put him back on the lead for the walk back home.

 

Generally though, his level of obedience is slipping. That's bad from my point of view, but the worst part is that he will not stop whining when we leave a room he is in. It doesn't matter if he can see us (through the window) or hear us, he will whine. It's driving both of us mad, but my fiancee more so because it's disturbing her sleep in the mornings (I get up and walk him at 6:30 then pop back for a lie-in, during which time he whines).

 

We are going to be taking him to obedience classes for six weeks starting next wednesday and the ultimatum has been issued. If he doesn't shape up at the end of that, I need to make a choice. It's not a choice I want to make, so I am asking, nay, pleading! for help to cure the whining. If that stops, I am sure I can work with the rest of the issues at a more leisurely pace. I _need_ to get the whining stopped and I am not prepared to resort to smacking him.

 

Help please.

[Paul in North Lincs.]

Bear with him wookie.......................and liken him to a adolesant boy.....

 

 

This usual.......when they start finding their plumbs...and their sence of smell starts to evolve..........a whole new world is opened up them that they just want to explore....

 

they usually do settle back down..

 

I wouldnt have imagined that this was in anyway a perminant state, especially as the training upt knwo has been going well.

 

Typically for the fist 6/7 months of their lives they are like sponges...............and are eager to please....then comes adolsesant stage where they ***** about for for a while....anf they soon settle as they mature abit....

 

 

Dont give up on him!!!!!!!! :lol:

[Millomite]

Use a shaker bottle or a water pistol when he whines.

 

There's always the anti bark collar if it persists....

[Wookie]

It's not really my choice about the giving up. I have to take a lot of stock in the other person in my life and if she is not happy about things, then I have to try and work it out so that she is. Hence the ultimatum. She's been good about Ted so far even though it has caused more than one argument. I'm more than willing to keep trying, but I am not sure I have the luxury of time.

 

Paul, thanks for the idea. I'll try out the water spray tonight.

[webber]

Wookie

 

I am certainly no dog trainer, but I have seen the two methods refered to by Millomite used by trainers on the telly. I think the full blown childs water cannon worked best, but soaking the living room may not win you too many points with your other half.

 

Good luck.

 

webber

[ShaggyRS6]

Welcome to my world.

 

If i had actually put some time into thinking about what I needed a dog to do for me I would not have gotten an ESS. I may get slated for what I am about to say, but, with me, you know you will get the truth.

 

After 1 year I am nowhere close to getting my dog trained. He is very loyal to me, never seen loyalty in a dog as much as Aero, however I cant train him. I dont have the time. All I want to do is to shoot, and after work I am too tired to train him. Dont get me wrong, he is not neglected in any way, but I am not putting the time in. Because he is untrained I am loathed to let him of the lead in some areas, therefore he gets bored and starts annoying the wife in the day. Without a doubt this is my fault, not the dogs.

 

In hindsight what I should have done was buy a fully trained Lab. That would have been the perfect dog. You live and learn.

 

I do owe it to Aero though to get him trained as he would be an excellent worker. So I have contacted a specialist Spaniel trainer who, at the end of Feb wants to see Aero and will probably take him off me for a month to train him. I just need a steady dog, a dog that I can take out with me whenever i go shooting. That way we will both be happy.

 

I am not worried about the cost, because, as I have said I owe it to the dog.

 

Again, I may get slated for what I am doing, but I beleive its the best couse of action given my inability in time and skill to train him. I just hope that at 2 years old its not too late.

[dusk2dawn]

I'm faced with a massive dilemma right now. Ted has turned into a right little sod this last week and that has made my fiancee really annoyed with him and me.

 

To give you all a bit of background, Ted's an eight month old ESS and he's been reasonably good up to now with picking things up (coming back to whistle, sitting to hand signal, basic other commands like "Down"), but at the beginning of the week he decided he was going to not come back to us during a walk. He decided that he was going to carry on playing and running away when we got close.

 

I did the usual "turn around and walk the other way/prey instinct" trick and nothing happened. He decided that he would just carry on doing his thing. Eventually I trapped him in someone's drive and he went home on a short lead. Since then he's been on a long lead at all times (20') and today he had a little scamper about and came back when called (just) three times. Eventually I put him back on the lead for the walk back home.

 

Generally though, his level of obedience is slipping. That's bad from my point of view, but the worst part is that he will not stop whining when we leave a room he is in. It doesn't matter if he can see us (through the window) or hear us, he will whine. It's driving both of us mad, but my fiancee more so because it's disturbing her sleep in the mornings (I get up and walk him at 6:30 then pop back for a lie-in, during which time he whines).

 

We are going to be taking him to obedience classes for six weeks starting next wednesday and the ultimatum has been issued. If he doesn't shape up at the end of that, I need to make a choice. It's not a choice I want to make, so I am asking, nay, pleading! for help to cure the whining. If that stops, I am sure I can work with the rest of the issues at a more leisurely pace. I _need_ to get the whining stopped and I am not prepared to resort to smacking him.

 

Help please.

 

You have pm, and your Irving book is on way.

 

D2D

[Wookie]

Cheers D2D!

 

Shaggy, I was thinking the same way as you. I love him to pieces (and he knows it) and he's loyal as hell too (will curl up on me or under my legs at just about any quiet time) and I really, really want him to come out with me when I get to the fields. If sending him away for a month is the only way I get to keep him, then that is what will happen. I am just scared as hell that it will ruin his personality.

 

The water spayer is going to get a try tonight. I'll see how it works over the weekend. Jet or cloud?

[ShaggyRS6]

Jet. That's what the wife uses. In fact she only has to show him the spray now and he knows he is being told off

[Millomite]

Lee you are doing the right thing, although it may take longer than a month. I have felt in a similar position sometimes, but it usually comes good when I stop and break things down. I spend as much time as poss training, may be more or less than other people, but it's starting to pay off. Look at it this way. You cut down on your shooting for 2 years and have 10 years shooting with a good dog! I have given up my place in a syndicate just so I can use the beating line as a training day for my dog. I know in the long run I'll benefit. It's just a happy medium you need to come to

[al4x]

To an extent this can be a problem with only having one dog, if they have another for company they don't stay quite as attached to you. I have the same thing with my GWP she hates being left in a room on her own or even with other people if I'm about. She is 8 months now and it does seem to be getting better. As for the general training you're taking the best option shaggy letting a proper trainer have him for a bit the other thing that will make a difference is having his balls off at some point. As we all know they only get you into trouble

I've a mate with a springer and he won't be getting another when compared to his parents lab its been hard work all the way through. They take one hell of a lot to get steady and aren't IMHO a novices dog. Still stick with it its worth it in the end and as for the ultimatum well just remember the dog will be loyal and with you whatever, you can't necessarily say that about women

[MC]

Training is all down to little and often, not a solid hour once a week. I train my springer for about 10 -15 minutes a day and while he may not be the best dog in the world he does what I want him to.

 

I have never smacked him, I have thrown his lead at him from time to time. The trick is not letting him get away with something. If you blow the stop whistle and he doesn't stop, go and get him and take him back to the place where he was when you blew the whistle and blow it lud for a few seconds. He'll soon get the message. Same with the recall, if he doesn't return go and get him. The trick to the recall is making yourself more interesting than whatever it is he is doing. If that means using treats or running off in the other direction or jumping around like a nutter then do it.

 

If you don't keep it up then he will forget.

[Browning]

I dont have the time. All I want to do is to shoot, and after work I am too tired to train him.

 

Surely you can take 15 minutes out of your day to work with him?? That's all it needs, a little and often.

[new to the flock]

Wookie,

 

I dont remember Mate is he crate trained?

 

When the whining is taking place is he running free in the house, or is he crated? And when he is whinning what do you do?, yell at him, ignor him, go to him, etc.

 

NTTF

[Wookie]

He is crate trained, but recently we have taken his crate away and let him sleep just on his Tuffie in the kitchen. His whining was happening way before that when he was in a different room though.

 

Example 1. I wake up at 06:30 and he's woken up because the cat has been scratching around in her litter tray. Cue whining to be let out for a wee. Not a problem; I get up, let him out of the crate, let him go, bring him in and leave him running around the kitchen/hall on his own. Result? As soon as I go upstairs I hear whining and therefore I do not get another 20 minutes' snooze and the fiancee is woken up too.

 

Example 2. all three of us are in the lounge and I feel the need to go and have a smoke in the garden. We both go out but leave Ted in the lounge. Within about 30 seconds, he's whining and jumping up on the glass of the patio door.

 

Example 3. We both go upstairs to talk to make a phone call. Within seconds, he's whining.

 

Now, we have tried waiting for it to stop, but if we are upstairs and need to get to the kitchen, that's often not an option. The same if he is in the hall and we are in the louge. Shouting "No" loudly at him through a door makes him quiet for about 10 seconds, then it starts again.

 

So far we have not had to smack him, but it has been mentioned a couple of times recently.

 

The only problem I can see with the spray option is that if we open the dor after he has been whining, then he has usually already stopped the whining when he hears us some to him, therefore the spray is wasted, or misinterpreted. My thinking is that he needs to be sprayed at the time he is whining, not afterwards.

 

Should I get him back in his crate at night, or is he going to be ok on just his bed in the kitchen?

[plinker]

martin has said it all i think it is you that needs to know which methods to use to train him, are you following any type of book or method ?

do you intend to work him on or shoot or rough shooting at least twice a week or maybe only occasional shooting over him?

you need to be sure of what you want to do with him then get some help and get things done in the right order in small steps ,don,t give up on him just put the effort in.i believe anyone who is patient and consistant can train a spaniel to a reasonable level. its about you just as much as the dog.

good luck with him.

[WGD]

Welcome to my world.

 

If i had actually put some time into thinking about what I needed a dog to do for me I would not have gotten an ESS. I may get slated for what I am about to say, but, with me, you know you will get the truth.

 

After 1 year I am nowhere close to getting my dog trained. He is very loyal to me, never seen loyalty in a dog as much as Aero, however I cant train him. I dont have the time. All I want to do is to shoot, and after work I am too tired to train him. Dont get me wrong, he is not neglected in any way, but I am not putting the time in. Because he is untrained I am loathed to let him of the lead in some areas, therefore he gets bored and starts annoying the wife in the day. Without a doubt this is my fault, not the dogs.

 

In hindsight what I should have done was buy a fully trained Lab. That would have been the perfect dog. You live and learn.

 

I do owe it to Aero though to get him trained as he would be an excellent worker. So I have contacted a specialist Spaniel trainer who, at the end of Feb wants to see Aero and will probably take him off me for a month to train him. I just need a steady dog, a dog that I can take out with me whenever i go shooting. That way we will both be happy.

 

I am not worried about the cost, because, as I have said I owe it to the dog.

 

Again, I may get slated for what I am doing, but I beleive its the best couse of action given my inability in time and skill to train him. I just hope that at 2 years old its not too late.

 

Getting Aero trained professionally is a good idea but, and I am sure this will be suggested to you by your trainer, YOU will need training to handle the input Aero will get from the trainer - if this isn't offered, ask for it or look for another trainer or you'll end up with a dog who doesn't know what you want from him and you'll end up back at square one. Hope it all works out mate

 

Just out of interest, you say if you had thought about what you wanted your dog to do you wouldn't have got an ESS - what do you want your dog to do?

 

Wookie - with NTTF on the case you'll get quality advice, dig in mate, you'll get through it.

 

WGD

[lurcherboy]

Wookie, give the dog up if you ain't got the time it will be better for both of you.

 

I still spend 10-15 mimutes a day with the cocker and lab with mixed results, sometimes in the dark or the pouring rain, and they have a year under each pad now.

 

Not have a pop mate just being realistic. The dog may well rise to the occasion with someone who has the time and ability or just clicks with it.

 

 

 

 

LB

[Wookie]

LB, I currently spend a good 10-15 with him doing the basics each lunchtime. Maybe it should be more and maybe the training isn't ideal, but the classes this wednesday are [hopefully] going to rub off some of the edges. I'm not the one that wants rid of him and I am going to try everything I can to keep him _and_ get him trained.

 

As a bit of an update, this weekend he was actually pretty good. Of course me feeling like **** all Saturday didn't help, but he managed to not whine that much in the morning and actually settled down quietly with his chew that night in the lounge, which is really rare. I was going to say that he also had the "coming back" thing better, but today he blew that by doing a runner at the end of his morning walk. I was stuck and couldn't run, reach for the whistle or a treat as I had a handful of poo (the joy of no nappy sacks and only a tissue...).

 

So, lunchtime is going to be a fun session. He's going back on the long lead again. However, he's getting the hang of "Wait" and "Stay" now, as well as "Down", which is nice. He even occaisionally sits to the whistle, which is nicer.

[Blackbart]

At 2 years old sticking him with a trainer for a month wont make him into gundog of the year.Unfortunatly even though you dont want to hear it you have let the dog down badly by doing nothing with him in the most important learning period in his life (imo) 0-2 and a half years old.It is best to train them little and often,start early,often with bribery ie food nibbles and above all keep it interesting for the dog.If his interest wanes in a particular exercise introduce something to gain his interest again... fur,food or noise should do it.you dont have to set aside hours a week to do this and some of it can be done in the house.As for walking to heel,i would walk him on a short lead and carry a length of garden cane or something similar and when he pulls he gets a tap on the nose with it and told to heel or come in.You dont have to wack the dog,just enough to make him stall.The wingeing and whinning is hard to get rid of and some dogs never grow out of it,and in my opinion it is a boredom thing and as you say you cant be bothered to train him i pressume you arent taking him for many walks and therin lies your problem,your dog is bored and his running off and not coming back is related to this as he doesnt want to go back to being bored lying in the house.When you leave the room he wants to go with you cos it may be interesting and he is crying because he cant go.You will only get out of a dog what you put in and at the moment you arent putting anything in so dont expect anything in return.

[Wookie]

I think we need to seperate out my dog problems from Shaggy's...

 

Mine: Ted is 8 months, I walk him three times a day and try and get 10 minutes or more of training in at lunchtimes during a walk. Ted whines a fair bit and this is something I am working on. Recent success involves putting his feed in an old juice bottle and making him work out the best way to get it out. It's noisy, but it keeps him quiet for a while whilst he figures it out.

 

As far as a pro trainer goes, if, at the end of this next six weeks, he's still being a little sod, then I will consider sending him away to a pro to get as much of the basics and intermediate stuff into his head as professionally as possible. I'll then carry on from there to make sure that, before he is 1, he's turned into a half decent dog.

 

Good idea about the cane though. I might try that today and see what happens.

[dusk2dawn]

I think we need to seperate out my dog problems from Shaggy's...

 

Mine: Ted is 8 months, I walk him three times a day and try and get 10 minutes or more of training in at lunchtimes during a walk. Ted whines a fair bit and this is something I am working on. Recent success involves putting his feed in an old juice bottle and making him work out the best way to get it out. It's noisy, but it keeps him quiet for a while whilst he figures it out.

 

As far as a pro trainer goes, if, at the end of this next six weeks, he's still being a little sod, then I will consider sending him away to a pro to get as much of the basics and intermediate stuff into his head as professionally as possible. I'll then carry on from there to make sure that, before he is 1, he's turned into a half decent dog.

 

Good idea about the cane though. I might try that today and see what happens.

 

Just so no one reading this gets the wrong idea, the "cane" in question ideally should be a 3ft whippy stick from the hedgerow, staight hazel. With a few leaves left on the end like a flag.

 

Walk the dog on the lead on the left side between you and a fence/bank with a space of 2/3ft so that it can only walk to heel straight ahead with you, hold the stick loosely between forefinger and thumb of your right hand with the lead in the left hand walk the dog to heel swishing the stick gently in line with your knee, if the dog pulls forward it puts its nose into the leafy end of the stick, it will jump about a few times but will soon learn to walk with you, give the command "heel" immediately if it puts its nose in contact with the stick.

 

After a couple of weeks just carry the stick and eventually dispense with it.

 

I have used this method, it works well for dogs that persist with pulling if you do it everyday for a week or two, whenever the dog is exercised on the lead.

 

D2D

[ziplex]

I had problems with my GSP wookie, on advice from NTTF I lengthened her lead and the difference has been very promising........her lead was 10mtrs, it's now twenty and we are both happier for it. Whereas before I whistled/recalled/corrected her within 10mtrs it is now 20 when clipped on. This gives me more time to think about it and it gives her a little more freedom which has helped a great deal. Don't know if this may be beneficial to you but for what it'll cost it may well be worth a try? Before she was all too keen to want to go away, now it's like she is more comforatable being able to go that little further but responds much better to the whistle at the same time.