Shotguns & patterns

[JohnGalway]

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Edited September 2, 2009 by JohnGalway

[Big_Sam]

I shotgun is a length of smoothbore tube.

 

The only thing I can really think of would be the chokes.

[the last engineer]

million dollar question John, back bored barrels in my opinion are the way to go, having spent a lot of time throwing guns shells and tubes into pattern plates i do see a difference from non BB guns, thats not to say its the be all, the right combination of barrel diameter and tube restrictin counts for everything, you need to look at the choices you want and options available in aftermarket tubes, all the modern guns have way better quality in the making of barrels and tubes.

 

having a number of brownings, and having the bores mapped has helped me understand the mechanics a lot better, the larger bore allows the shot to relax more before being strangled in the tubes, all being equal and mod tube in a beretta with a .725" barrel will have the same restriction as a browning with a diameter of .742" wit ha mod tube, the difference is the initial .017" smaller bore to start with, we then get into shot string,,,,, another headache.

 

my honest and humble opinion is you wont go wrong picking up a AL390/391, they are work horses, well made, well groomed, good tubes with consistent patterns, very few hangups in the thousands of rounds i throw into them, heavey and light loads, i have 3 and cant fault one of them.

 

Martin

[Zapp]

my honest and humble opinion is you wont go wrong picking up a AL390/391, they are work horses, well made, well groomed, good tubes with consistent patterns, very few hangups in the thousands of rounds i throw into them, heavey and light loads, i have 3 and cant fault one of them.

 

Martin

 

[casts_by_fly]

The length/constriction of the choke tube and the load you put down them are the largest contributors of pattern. If you are shooting cheap loads with soft lead at high velocity and fast constrictions you are going to create a lot of flyers.

 

Ideally, we want evenly dispersed patterns with few flyers regardless of choke constriction. Then you can confidently pick a choke for a given situation. In my experience, pattern even-ness can be greatly improved with good chokes. Case in point, my Remington Spartan 310 (Baikal IZH-27) came with a set of factory choke tubes. They are okay, but the patterns can get a little splotchy. I picked up some aftermarket tubes and now the patterns are perfect with the same loads. Others have noted the same improvements in this gun.

 

If you want to keep patterns tighter and more consistent with the cartridge then high antimony shot (hard shot) with a plastic wad at lower speeds will keep patterns together nicely. When you try to push softer shot at high velocities, you can often blow the pattern open with flyers. In the US, a lot of eastern grouse hunters will use various cartridge combinations to change the pattern of their guns in tightly choked SxS fixed choke guns. Rather than opening the chokes and hurting the value of the gun, you change your load to do what you want. If the gun is bored Cyl/Cyl and you want an IC or sk1 pattern, you use a low velocity, hard shot round with a good wad. You can tighten a gun as much as 1/2 choke doing that. To go the other way (gun bored F/F) you use a spreader load with a fiber wad (or no wad) at high speed with soft and or irregular shot. The pattern usually isn't as even as if you had used the 'correct' choke and a normal load but for hunting purposes it gets the job done without opening up the chokes.

 

Also, turkey hunting is a very specific application where you want a dense, even pattern. Since the vital area is the neck and head, you need to have a very dense pattern to ensure you get a couple pellets into the kill zone. Turkey chokes are usually 0.010" - 0.025" more constriction than a normal full choke. Other tips to make super tight patterns are really hard shot (6+% antimony), full wads with no or few petals, lower velocities (1100 fps), buffered loads, extended choke tubes and longer constriction zones, backbored barrels, and lengthened forcing cones. The latter two have their proponents and results are mixed. Lengthened cones helps softer shot more than hard shot since it doesn't compact the pellets together as quickly (thus fewer deformed pellets). Excessive lengthening is considered unnecessary though. Back boring can produce good results, but whether the results are from the bigger bore or the lowered pressure and velocity behind the shot charge (caused by gasses escaping around the sides of the wad) is still debatable.

 

Long story short, find a gun that fits you and points where you are aiming. Don't buy a gun because of the pattern it throws. Once the gun fits you, then play with chokes and loads until you get what you want. You'd be surprised how good factory setups can be, but if it still doesn't do what you want then look into aftermarket stuff.

 

thanks

rick

[JohnGalway]

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Edited September 2, 2009 by JohnGalway

[tikkamark]

I think most beretta semis now come with optima bore barrels which is supposed to reduce recoil and improve the patterns,my old al391 and new extrema both throw excellent patterns The optima-plus chokes are very long as well which would help with consistant pattern density also

[casts_by_fly]

john,

 

I shoot trulock chokes, but also have Carlson in skt1, Imod. The Imod flush mount trulock that I have it a great 40 yd choke for both #4 steel and #6 lead. My turkey choke (.675" diameter) will do a tight enough pattern that will drop a turkey at 50 yd with no questions.

 

For what you are suggesting, I'd start with a precision hunter choke in the appropriate constriction for the distances you're shooting. If you're talking about pass shooting or roost shooting crows in the 30-45 yd range, I'd pick up an Imod or mod precision hunter. For foxes it would definitely be either full or extra full. Personally I'd either order both the mod and full chokes, or start with the full and see where it gets you with both loads. It might work out to be just what you want for both. If you like a tight choke for crows then I'd definitely order the full and call it a day.

 

http://www.trulockchokes.com/chokesearch.a...cision%20Hunter

 

thanks

rick

[Quickshot]

I know this is not to do with the gun really.....but, Shotguns throw 60% of their pattern aove the bead.

 

QS

[casts_by_fly]

QS,

 

depends on the gun and how you mount it. I put a different front sight on mine that has a couple different height options on the front sight. I only put the rear sight on when I was turkey hunting with it because sometimes you're in odd positions and you are actually aiming with a shotgun. Regardless, before I switched the original bead would shoot dead on with an even split. When I switched front sights it now depends on which insert I have in. I can change the POI (and the pellet distribution) by a foot at 30 yd by swapping the inserts.

 

thanks

rick

[the last engineer]

absolutly, some trap guns have an adjustable rib also an adjustable stock, all alter the poi/poa depending the game shot , or on how you mount the gun to another person, too many variables to mention on that one also, to say 60% above is a little sketchy at best.

 

Martin

[lurcherboy]

Everyone I know has been surprised when confronted with a plate, steve

 

It does some bods heads in as they aimed..............

 

 

 

 

LB

[clayman]

Pattern quality is more about the cartridge you use than the chokes.

 

Assuming the gun is choked to suit your needs, the best patterns will come form slower catridges.

 

Muzzle velocities over 1250 fps start to "cone" the pattern, so that the head is a dense cloud will the shotstring is created by the pellets on the side of the barrel deforming slightly and rolling back . flying out.

 

The faster the cartridge the more pronounced this effect becomes.

 

Harder shot deforms less, so using high antinomy shot, or nickel plated shot, stops the side deformation and gives a more even edge to the pattern with less loose flyers that are wasted pellets.

 

Steel shot, because of its inherent hardness, gives very good patterns.

 

Clayman

[Pushkin]

John, I think the starting point is really to find out what pattern you are shooting with the gun as it is now and to do this you really need a plate or large safe structure to pin/stick paper/cardboard to and then map the different patterns at different ranges and using different cartridges. Once you know these points for sure and can refer to them on paper, you can decide if it is you, the gun, the range, the choke or the cartridge that is the problem or even a combination of all. You may well find you don't need to change barrels.chokes etc, but rather you need to use the right combination to get the results you need. P.S. Make sure you use consistent measuring for distances from the plate to get the mapping as accurate as possible.

 

good luck.

 

Pushkin

[casts_by_fly]

Pattern quality is more about the cartridge you use than the chokes.

 

Assuming the gun is choked to suit your needs, the best patterns will come form slower catridges.

 

Muzzle velocities over 1250 fps start to "cone" the pattern, so that the head is a dense cloud will the shotstring is created by the pellets on the side of the barrel deforming slightly and rolling back . flying out.

 

The faster the cartridge the more pronounced this effect becomes.

 

Harder shot deforms less, so using high antinomy shot, or nickel plated shot, stops the side deformation and gives a more even edge to the pattern with less loose flyers that are wasted pellets.

 

Steel shot, because of its inherent hardness, gives very good patterns.

 

Clayman

 

 

Clayman,

 

Yes, but a cheap choke tube will kill a good cartridge's pattern pretty quickly. A good choke tube can make up for a lot of 'cheapness' built into a cartridge. An extended tube with a gradual taper an a level end will give tight patterns (almost) no matter what you are putting down it.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[henry d]

I have to agree with clayman, I patterned a lot of wildfowling cartridges and found the buffered cartridges were stunning for pattern and as they were heavy loads they were slow.

 

Winchester XX mags and Remington Turkey loads(can`t remember the name) were the best, at 40yds I was getting 90% in a 30 inch circle and it was fairly even too. The shot was copperplated and I have shot a good few fox at good ranges with No.2`s(around UK BB size) stone dead.

 

Down side is they are hard to get and are limited in shot size. BTW - do you use 3 or 3 1/2" chambers ??

[JohnGalway]

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Edited September 2, 2009 by JohnGalway

[casts_by_fly]

john,

 

for patterning paper, you can use heavy butcher's paper. It normally comes in 3-4' wide rolls. Alternatively, you can use wide waxed paper and put 2-3 sheets together. Either staple it to two stakes in the ground or use a big piece of cardboard. The cardboard will be dead after too many rounds, but you should be able to get enough use out of it to pattern your gun.

 

Thanks

Rick

[JohnGalway]

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Edited September 2, 2009 by JohnGalway