Fisherman Mike Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Another Savaging ..........When are we ever going to learn and get these dogs properly licensed ? How many more Children have to be maimed or killed Why do these people think its "hard" to have this type of dog in their possession. ? "A man has been arrested after a dog mauled a nine-year-old boy, leaving him with serious facial injuries. (Advertisement) Northumbria Police said the boy is recovering in hospital after being savaged by the Staffordshire bull terrier-type dog in South Shields, South Tyneside. An 18-year-old man was arrested on suspicion of being in charge of a dog that was dangerously out of control. Police also seized the animal and arrangements are being made to have it put down." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Police also seized the animal and arrangements are being made to have it put down." What's going to happen to the dog? G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duey Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Mike lets face it, it very rarely is the dogs fault, its the owner and how they have brought it up and trained it. Often with these young lads they are happy to have an aggressive dog and can use them as weapons, until it goes too far and this happens and the dog gets blamed A licence may help as its an extra hurdel for these deliquents to get over but I don't think it will really work, there's enough unlicenced illegal firearms out on the streets Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 (edited) My Brother had a Rotty a while back the softest dog you could ever wish to meet! She was as placid as anything and a lovely temprament but these dogs constantly get bad press! I used to work in a cat and dog shelter many years ago and they had Rotties and other bad named dogs with no trouble infact I was only ever hurt twice in the shelter! Once by a Ferral cat and the other was a 3 legged ram saved from destruction which chased me over the yard and knocked me flat on my face My Aunt also had Staffies all her life and again ALL great tempraments. She had 3 lads too playing with the dogs and the youngest was born AFTER she had one of them and the dog and the young lad built a great relationship! I have only ever been bitten twice in my life by dog and BOTH were not on the dangerous dogs act! A Jack Russel and a Dalmation! ALL dogs have the potential to bite and kill should it try not just the ones covered under the dangerous dogs act! Edited March 5, 2008 by Lord Geordie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 ALL dogs have the potential to bite and kill should it try not just the ones covered under the dangerous dogs act! Exactly. It was put to me recently that the breed of dog with highest "bite rate" per annum in the UK is.... the Cocker Spaniel. I can't verify this but it reinforces the previous point. As regards "Dangerous Dogs", the common theme with a lot of these breeds as has been said previously is that they are bought as status symbols by young men wanting to look macho with no clue as to how to look after or get the best from any dog, let alone a breed with a predisposition for aggresive behaviour if not handled correctly. How we stop dogs being purchased for this purpose without causing difficulties for genuine supporters of the breed with well bred, well handled dogs I really don't know. WGD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderboy Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 however i wonder if any of us would say the same if one of our kids got mauled :yp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob300w Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 ALL dogs have the potential to bite and kill should it try not just the ones covered under the dangerous dogs act! Exactly. It was put to me recently that the breed of dog with highest "bite rate" per annum in the UK is.... the Cocker Spaniel. I can't verify this but it reinforces the previous point. As regards "Dangerous Dogs", the common theme with a lot of these breeds as has been said previously is that they are bought as status symbols by young men wanting to look macho with no clue as to how to look after or get the best from any dog, let alone a breed with a predisposition for aggresive behaviour if not handled correctly. How we stop dogs being purchased for this purpose without causing difficulties for genuine supporters of the breed with well bred, well handled dogs I really don't know. WGD The goverment will probably do something similar to their knee jerk response to illegal pistols, ban all of the legal ones. As you say, there is no answer as any dog can be made aggressive towards people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 however i wonder if any of us would say the same if one of our kids got mauled :yp: [/quote/] I would and I would be making some arrangements for the idiot on the other end of the lead. LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 (edited) :yp: however i wonder if any of us would say the same if one of our kids got mauled You're right, the sad fact is if the breeds likely to take an attack to the mauling stage don't exist then the risk isn't there... but we all know what it's like having an ill informed "anti" group to contend with(present company excluded obviously but allow for the band wagoners) . Still don't know the answer Edited March 5, 2008 by wgd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 (edited) The bottom line ( for me anyhow ) is why do you pick the dog you have ? My lab is as soft as badger poo but I still keep a beady eye on her around small people. She is 40% a working dog, 20% a food hoover and the rest belongs to my 7 year old daughter, they are inseperable yet I never drop my guard. My previous dog was a collie, 60% worker, 35% fox killer and a dog I had the trust of but never the full trust in. He bit someone in my house and it was my fault. Thats the other 15%, my failure to monitor him led to one of the hardest decisions I have ever had to make. All my dogs prior to those contrasts were working dogs, "tools" to help me get a job done. They all shared my house, got fussed over and led full lives. Shooting = getting a shooting oriented dog. Dog to take out after poachers = a dog suitable for that kind of role. Living on a sink hole estate does not mean the dog of choice has to be a staf`, rottie or doberman. There are far too many people with small brains and big dogs that they neither know, or care how to, train. I should know, every chav in Croydon has a dog straining on its stud encrusted collar with said chav calling "tyson" "bruno" "diesel" (delete as appropriate) "will you fing *** ere". Edited March 5, 2008 by digger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Police also seized the animal and arrangements are being made to have it put down." What's going to happen to the dog? G.M. The last time there was an incident (where the baby was killed?) a police firearms officer destroyed the dog at the scene. No doubt at all that this dog will in some way meet a similar end. On another not I think they shouldnt call 18 year olds a 'man'. the 18 year olds I know are all boys/kids atleast they act like it! im 19 and still feel/get treated as a youngster Hope the appropriate sentances are made :yp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayward Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 ""Staffordshire bull terrier-type dog"" taken from the news Could pertain to most likely any breed of dog blatant sensationalism that SUCKERS fall for every time !!! ahh this **** makes my blood boil Blame and hold the owner responsible not the breed ..... i wager its not even a staffy in the end !! and i also bet that the 18-year-old man, who was arrested on suspicion of being in charge of a dog dangerously out of control, is a scum bag who probably intended his dog to vicious !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darebear Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 the incident in question happened around the corner from us. and if the dog and a55hole owner are who i think they are, that idiot had no right ever owning a dog in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob300w Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 (edited) the incident in question happened around the corner from us. and if the dog and a55hole owner are who i think they are, that idiot had no right ever owning a dog in the first place. I take your point, and there are a few like that all areas, but it's not practical to police who does and does not own a dog. Even banning the likes of this one from owning a dog for life, is not going to work, can you imagine the police approaching every dog owner that they see and asking them if they are banned? In fact we had one in this area, banned from owning a dog, and within two weeks, he was "looking after" his daughters dog, not owning it. The problem is, as has been said, the owners, not the dogs, and the only answer that I can see is a deterrant, big fines or hefty jail sentences, but as the jails are full........ Edited March 6, 2008 by bob300w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilishdave Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 (edited) When I lived out in Germany in 2000 a 2 SBTs ripped a kid apart in a park in Hanover as a result the dangerous dogs act was brought in and that meant that any SBT or cross could not be bread from and was not allowed in a public place. If you had a dog over a certain weight 30Kg I think it was automatically classed as a dangerous dog and had to be muzzled in public. If you had SBT Cross bread you could go and sit a test to see if you were competent to handle your dog. If you were deemed competent you would be allowed to take the dog in public with a muzzle. I personally think they went about it the wrong way I believe that if you want to own a "dangerous" dog you should have to do a training course and be licensed first. I had a SBT x Whippet which was a very strong little dog that had the potential to cause a lot of damage but she was probably the best natured dog that I ever came across. I think that was down to the fact both my wife and my self would not allow even so much as the slightest show of aggression. The other side of this is many of the young scroats who have this type of dog actively encourage them to be aggressive to make them feel harder and more confidants. This encouragement makes the dogs think displays of aggression is a wanted and acceptable activity. I would heavily prosecute (including Custodial sentence) the owners of these dogs that go wrong because they are ultimately responsible for any damage the dog does and in all cases they could have prevented the incident. There is the odd rouge case though. My Grandfather had a top class lab from Sandringham that was trained to the gun by a pro dog trainer. The dog was outstanding in the field and lived a disciplined life in the kennel. One day at home it turned on my Grandfather he managed to get away from it relatively unscathed then he went straight out and gave it both barrels. The point was it didn't bite a kid because the dog was controlled properly and was not exposed to children. To sum up it seldom the fault of the dog but I concede that their may be the odd time when it is the dogs fault. Dave Edited March 6, 2008 by Devilishdave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamC Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 I agree that these dogs are a like a fashion item for these people, that is why you go to any dog rescue home and they seem to be about 60% Staffs. I know what it is like to be on the end of the stigma that surrounds these type of dogs. We got a rescue Staff Pointer X about 2 years ago. He is a big powerful dog and I am 6'4" big chap. If I take him for a walk around the block before or after work, people will cross the road to get away from us. He is the softest thing ever though, and wants nothing more than to be with me and my wife. I really could not have asked for a better dog. I did not choose to rescue him for macho reasons, but because he looked so sorry for himself and I knew we could give him a better life. It pains me to see the idiots parading the streets with staffs and mastifs on big chained leads, yanking them around and shouting at them, but I do not know what the answer is. As mentioned there are pleanty of illegal firearms on the streets, so would licensing make a difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob300w Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Wasn't it dear old Barbara Woodhouse who said "There are no bad dogs, only bad owners" ? Over-generalising a touch, as there obviously are a few rogue dogs, but close enough to the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony9r Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 We have a 5 year old Staff bitch, and like others have said, we are usually given a wide berth when out walking her It's only when you meet other owners, or ex-owners, that we'll be approached and have comments like "lovely dog", and a chance for Candy to give them a good slobber and cuddle... the dog, not the wife :yp: She is our first family dog, and we did quite a bit of research on the staffie before deciding... the clincher was most say they regard them as a "Nanny dog" due to the care and respect they have for young children, which we have 3...say no more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darebear Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 the incident in question happened around the corner from us. and if the dog and a55hole owner are who i think they are, that idiot had no right ever owning a dog in the first place. I take your point, and there are a few like that all areas, but it's not practical to police who does and does not own a dog. Even banning the likes of this one from owning a dog for life, is not going to work, can you imagine the police approaching every dog owner that they see and asking them if they are banned? In fact we had one in this area, banned from owning a dog, and within two weeks, he was "looking after" his daughters dog, not owning it. The problem is, as has been said, the owners, not the dogs, and the only answer that I can see is a deterrant, big fines or hefty jail sentences, but as the jails are full........ woah, hold on a minute. did i say ANYTHING about policing this? i'm not as daft as to think it would be practical, hence making no such comment. it was simply a statement of fact. the owner is that much of a *****, he doesnt deserve, nor should he have the right to own a dog. that is the bottom line. that is MY personal opinion. doesn't mean i think that police should interview and make decisions on each and every dog owner. i'm not stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 devilishdave hit the nail on the head. There are bad dogs and bad owners the main issue and why we have a dangerous dogs act is that though many species of dog will bite few will savage and cause a lot of damage. Some breeds have inbuilt instincts that just switch on much like Jack Russels with rats, you don't have to teach them they just know what to do naturally. In the same way the dogs that come from a fighting background have it inbuilt to bite hold and shake hence the problem. If you get bitten by a pit bull you need a breaker bar to get it off and its definitely not easy whereas a jack russel or collie usually just bites the once. Much as it would be lovely to blame the owners entirely some dogs are more prone to fighting and biting than others even of the same breed. Then you get issues with children pulling them about and them having an off day and with a more powerful dog you can get a savaging. There is no real answer other than educating people more about not letting big dogs and kids mix and you can never turn your back on them. Licensing is no good as it won't stop it and there is no way they are going to make you sit an IQ test before giving you the permission to own a certain kind of dog. It worries me enough that some people are allowed to have and look after kids and the government can't stop those who shouldn't be allowed to from breeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob300w Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 the incident in question happened around the corner from us. and if the dog and a55hole owner are who i think they are, that idiot had no right ever owning a dog in the first place. I take your point, and there are a few like that all areas, but it's not practical to police who does and does not own a dog. Even banning the likes of this one from owning a dog for life, is not going to work, can you imagine the police approaching every dog owner that they see and asking them if they are banned? In fact we had one in this area, banned from owning a dog, and within two weeks, he was "looking after" his daughters dog, not owning it. The problem is, as has been said, the owners, not the dogs, and the only answer that I can see is a deterrant, big fines or hefty jail sentences, but as the jails are full........ woah, hold on a minute. did i say ANYTHING about policing this? i'm not as daft as to think it would be practical, hence making no such comment. it was simply a statement of fact. the owner is that much of a *****, he doesnt deserve, nor should he have the right to own a dog. that is the bottom line. that is MY personal opinion. doesn't mean i think that police should interview and make decisions on each and every dog owner. i'm not stupid. If you read my posting, you will see that I did not say that you did, I was attempting to see a solution and dismissing the idea that it could be policed, not suggesting that you had said it. I was in fact agreeing with you, hence the comment about the one who lives in this area, who is every bit as big a ***** as the one who lives in yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darebear Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 oic. in that case i shall step down from my high horse apologies for being a stroppy cow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob300w Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 No problem, unfortunatly it's the *****'s that we are discussing that create problems for the rest of us, they just seem to ignore the law and get away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Every time someone gets bitten, someone trots out the "dangerous dog" statement. Rotties and Bull Terriers usually come in for the most stick. It appalls me that people are so gullible. I have listed before the dogs that have a proven record of attacking people - Jack Russells, Collies, Labdradors, Rotties, GSDs, Dobermans - the list is endless. Any dog will bite. Only a complete fool would say "my dog would never bite" and "it's never bitten anyone before". I accept some dogs are bigger, but pulling a Jack Russell off a baby would not be the easiest matter. There are bad owners who fail to train and control their dogs. Anyone who leaves a child with any dog - runs a risk. I hope it does not come back to haunt them. I own Akitas and they never, ever go near my grandchildren, never go off a lead and are never left alone with anyone - including friends or adults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 There is no doubt about what you say Gordon, and you are clearly someone who know the responsibilities of dog ownership regardless of breed. With regards the breeds you cite, people are gullible yes, but there is no doubt that certain breeds of dog have an inbuilt streak, as Alex says, which means when their aggression is triggered the consequences are going to be worse for the victim than "just" a bite. In the same way as most dogs will chase rabbits but a lurcher instinctively knows what to do when it catches one, all dogs will bite but certain breeds attack. Please don't take what I say as criticism, it is only my opinion and hopefully contributes to this dicussion. WGD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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