who cares?

[berettaman1]

Just been reading about a young couple who were kicked to a pulp by a gang of scumbags, the young lady died, and her companion had a fractured skull! and has not made a full recovery!......the other case is where a young father was hammered to death by three young burglers ? and then to really make my day a young mum faces jail for leaving her car for a few moments to put money in a collection tin!!!New Labour" Tough on crime" Dont think so, you get more penalties for speeding,... dropping litter, or other minor infringments. The law in this country is joke.above cases in todays Daily Mail.

[pumpitup]

Couldnt agree more with you berettaman.

Dont think so, you get more penalties for speeding,... dropping litter, or other minor infringments. The law in this country is joke.above cases in todays Daily Mail.

Easy money for the police and makes their conviction numbers look good.

[Dean k]

Yeah lets all have a go at the system and the police!!! The women who left her car to put money in a collection was more likely going to by crack from her dealer!! LOL

 

Oh well if everyone thinks that the system really does not work and is not worth it, don't call the police when your in trouble after all will they do any good?? Or is it you just want that crime number for your insurance??

 

Dean

[bob300w]

"The women who left her car to put money in a collection was more likely going to by crack from her dealer!! "

 

You can of course substantiate that statement?

[Dean k]

"The women who left her car to put money in a collection was more likely going to by crack from her dealer!! "

 

You can of course substantiate that statement?

 

No mate not at all, I don't even have knowledge of the story!! Just added the comment as a taster, you know what forums are like!!

 

It does always reads the same on these subjects though, normally started by some getting a ticket and writing that a warning would have been better!! There must be someone out there that had a good service and result after being burgled but that is not a good topic "the police were helpful", and it never gets documented.

 

Like in all subjetcs including shooting the good stuff just does not make the news, just the bad.

 

Dean

[berettaman1]

I said it was news in todays Daily Mail, Dont tell me they are making it up, people are getting killed by thugs, and people say" I dont believe it is true" chap who lives a couple of miles from me was nearly killed by thugs who smashed his head with a baseball bat, poor bloke is now badly disabled and allmost blind. Its no good turning a blind eye to such things

Edited March 13, 2008 by berettaman1

[al4x]

"The women who left her car to put money in a collection was more likely going to by crack from her dealer!! "

 

You can of course substantiate that statement?

 

 

 

 

 

sounds like the apple core story with a bit of added tennants extra

Edited March 13, 2008 by al4x

[Blackbart]

Yeah lets all have a go at the system and the police!!! The women who left her car to put money in a collection was more likely going to by crack from her dealer!! LOL

 

Oh well if everyone thinks that the system really does not work and is not worth it, don't call the police when your in trouble after all will they do any good?? Or is it you just want that crime number for your insurance??

 

Dean

 

I know that was said tongue in cheek but it has a lot of truth to it.I was having a conversation in the pub the other night with a pal who is a cop about burglary or more to the point the stuff that gets nicked.My mother 3 times me once and a few other people in the pub,anyway in total 9 burglaries,and the total where the stuff got returned 0!!There was 1 arrested over one of the burglaries and he did get a prison term.But the jist of the tale is my pal rekons you have more chance of buying your stuff back from police auction than you have of getting it returned from them even if they recover it,cos he said unless your stuff is marked with your post code or something similar you have no chance and to them a telly is a telly unless your names on it you wouldnt even be asked to come and identify it.

So in a way you are right the most important thing the police do for you is give you a crime number so the insurance company can help you replace your stuff!!

[bob300w]

Dean k; "It does always reads the same on these subjects though, normally started by some getting a ticket and writing that a warning would have been better!! There must be someone out there that had a good service and result after being burgled but that is not a good topic "the police were helpful", and it never gets documented"

 

The problem being, that good news does not sell newspapers, A group of leather jacketed motor cyclists and retired rockers hold an all day money raising event in aid the Essex air ambulance in this area, this raises a lot of money for a good cause, it rates a few lines in the local rag, providing there is nothing else newsworthy, like a local councillor laddering his stockings in a gay bar.

News along the lines of you lads shooting unarmed civillians or tasering a sleeping passenger on a bus, obviously sells newspapers.

We have to be realistic here," PC saves pensioner from drowning" and "Clay shooting club donates large sum to hospice" ain't gonna make the headlines in the Sunday rags is it?

There is obviously some truth in your comments re parking tickets, but I would say that these people are in the minority, most shooting men, in my opinion, are rational enough to accept that they did it and the associated fine is their "reward", usually followed by a comment such as "They had to catch me eventually, I've been getting away with it for years".

[Pirate]

We have the most enviable judicial system in the world.

Innocent until proven guilty.

 

Every crime has a variable penalty, and once proven guilty, it is then to the judges to pass sentence.

 

Sadly, with prisons full to bursting, it makes me question whether this is the largest contributing factor when lightly sentencing proven criminals.

 

It seems in many, many cases, the minimum sentence is issued, rather than the maximum, which obviously, would be a far stronger deterrent.

 

Petty crimes against the system seem to attract the higher penalties than more serious crimes against society.

If I were responsible for bringing criminals to justice, which is often very risky, time consuming, and costly, I would be very peed off when they get off so lightly, and no real justice is served!

 

Pirate:

[bob300w]

"Petty crimes against the system seem to attract the higher penalties than more serious crimes against society.

If I were responsible for bringing criminals to justice, which is often very risky, time consuming, and costly, I would be very peed off when they get off so lightly, and no real justice is served!"

 

Yep, I know three people who quit the police force in pure frustration for this very reason. One of them, just before he left, was attending court in a case where a car pulled up outside a jewellers, the driver stayed in the motor with the engine running, the passenger ran inside with a sawn-off, robbed the jeweller, ran out and off they roared. Both were caught and charged, both were known criminals, the drivers defence was that he thought his friend had gone into the jewellers to buy a present for his wife, he had no knowledge of any robbery. My friends view was that he was convinced that the driver would get off, using this as his defence. I have not seen him since the case to ask him the verdict.

[Vagabond]

Just been reading about a young couple who were kicked to a pulp by a gang of scumbags, the young lady died, and her companion had a fractured skull! and has not made a full recovery!......the other case is where a young father was hammered to death by three young burglers ? and then to really make my day a young mum faces jail for leaving her car for a few moments to put money in a collection tin!!!New Labour" Tough on crime" Dont think so, you get more penalties for speeding,... dropping litter, or other minor infringments. The law in this country is joke.above cases in todays Daily Mail.

Do you Know why? It's because she wouldn't get abusive or aggressive towards the police making her a soft arrest. At the end of the day, on paper, 100 soft arrests looks the same as 100 hardcore criminal arrests, so it keeps the ministers happy. when they have a piece of paper in front of them and they can tell us "They have conclusive proof that crime is being cracked in our country".

[monkeyjaimz]

It does always reads the same on these subjects though, normally started by some getting a ticket and writing that a warning would have been better!! There must be someone out there that had a good service and result after being burgled but that is not a good topic "the police were helpful", and it never gets documented.

 

When I got done by a local police officer for using my phone for driving last year - he had a terrible attitude and I was ****** off at the time and did start a thread on here about it. I've mellowed now and realise that I broke the rules etc (he was a complete ***** though ).

Anyway, my point is, if he had been a 'decent local bobby' and given me a stern talking to rather than slapping me with 3 points on my previously clean licence and a 60 quid fine plus a bad attitude then I would be the first person to sing his praises from the rooftops, just my 2p worth

 

I think half the time their hands are tied, we had an attempted theft at work a couple of months ago. 2 guys appeared in broad daylight and proceeded to load up their van with equipment claiming that they 'thought it was scrap'. My gaffer and I challenged them, sent them packing. I got there reg number, pictures of their faces from the cctv system and I even made a complete dvd of them entering and leaving the premises.

 

Got the call back from the police a couple of weeks ago, not enough evidence to prosecute them

riiiiiight....

 

Im sure there are decent people out there in the police force that are fighting the good fight, you just never hear about it.

[Cranfield]

The original post was about people being kicked to death, by what appears to be drunken youths.

The question was asked, "Who cares ?".

I think most of us do, the big problem is, "what is the answer ?".

 

Before we get all the "bring back hanging etc" comments, I think two things should happen.

Firstly, a good look should be taken on UK drinking laws.

Not just the hours the pubs are open, but the availability of drink to youngsters.

If people are proven to be unable to handle their drink and behave anti socially, they should be banned from drinking (as you get banned from driving), you could even have a points system.

 

Secondly, as most of these people seem to have "previous", the first sentences should be very harsh to teach them a lesson.

At the moment, a first offence is treated quite leniently, which is no great deterrent.

Forget the soft sentences like "community service" and actually deprive them of their liberty.

This may mean building new prisons, then so be it, why should this be such an issue to avoid ?

 

The saddest thing about reading of these shocking incidents, is that every time one happens, we get shocked a little less.

It will be a sad day when we cease to be shocked at all.

[MM]

so its obvious that most of us can pick holes in the justice system, with a overall conclusion that there are a lot of issues that need to be addressed. what i would like to know, is that the people "upstairs" know that the public feel this way, so why do they not try and change this? every government party offers their own version of "we willl do this, and that.....", but they never do it. should we take the law into our own hands and dish out justice that way? or does that makes us part of the problem.

i have some very close friends who are police officers, and i have the greatest respect for what they do, and think that they deserve more credit for their efforts, but even they can see they are fighting an uphill battle. i hope in my lifetime that there is aPM who can pull this great country out of the **** hole that it has fallen into.

so to all the coppers keep doing what you do. lets rattle the judges and kick them in the pants

[Pirate]

It will be a very sad day indeed when the general public feel forced to take things into their own hands, purely out of frustration and fear.

 

Vigilante groups, made up from respectable members of the community, fathers, sons, even grandfathers, purely seeking to protect their civil liberties.

 

Just being able to walk our neibourhoods without fear of being abused or attacked, is something fast disappearing.

 

Many of our elderly, have felt uncomfortable for several years, now it is starting to affect the broader populace.

 

Not an ideal scenario I know, but the longer unsocial behaviour is allowed to go unchecked, the nearer we could be getting to taking the law into our own hands.

 

Law and order by anarchy?

Pirate:

[Fleabag]

In the sun newspaper 12.3.08 persons who commit offenses against the elderly or commit burglary will be treated more leniently if they can prove mitigating circumstance, like i needed to beat that person over the head with a bat to steel his / her pension because I have a drug problem, utter lunacy, this from a high court judge, no wonder 700 people a week fleeing UK, good luck to them.

[bob300w]

In the sun newspaper 12.3.08 persons who commit offenses against the elderly or commit burglary will be treated more leniently if they can prove mitigating circumstance, like i needed to beat that person over the head with a bat to steel his / her pension because I have a drug problem, utter lunacy, this from a high court judge, no wonder 700 people a week fleeing UK, good luck to them.

Will the last one to leave, turn the light off.

[Sundowner]

Is it me or are things really getting worse?

[berettaman1]

Is it me or are things really getting worse? :o

Oh, Shut up Fatty!! ..... Er, I mean who ate all the pies???

Edited March 13, 2008 by berettaman1

[bob300w]

Is it me or are things really getting worse? :o

Oh, Shut up Fatty!!

Still studying at the Arthur Scargill school of charm then B'man!

[berettaman1]

Bob, How the hell did you know that???

[Pirate]

Bob, How the hell did you know that??? :o

 

I would ask for a refund Ron!

Pirate:

[Pushkin]

I think we do - and have had for many years - one of the world's better legal systems. However, there is a problem with that and it is promoted mainly by the press. They like to be known as the 'Fourth Estate' i.e. the fourth most influential group in the country - and they are. Unfortunately, somewhere in between the inception of reporting and allowing the public to see what is really happening in the country/world in return for a small fee; they are now competing head on with each other to sell as many issues on a daily basis as possible - to make the best profit possible. Sadly too, instead of reporting the news, they are now trying to make the news by manipulating the facts relating to whatever it is they are reporting, holding polls each day or week because they are trying to influence the government and the people of this once great land. There is not - to my knowledge - one reporter in this country who is not biased in some way or another about what they report and subsequently - who does not try and get you - the reader - to side with them - and if you don't, then they will use various means to try and either mock or ridicule you by their supposedly more intelligent use of words. How many of us can honestly say they never read the papers and get uptight, annoyed or upset by something they read in them? How many of us can honestly say they buy a particular paper for its unbiased cover of political topics? Its straight forward reports that do not try and swing you one way or another but leave YOU to make your own mind up? Even their cartoonists are employed because they follow the papers owners political trends. For those who are unsure, if your paper has a red flag on it - usually the background to the name - it used to be a socialist grounded paper - and its tendencies will likely still show through in the way it reports matters. examples are the Sun, the Daily Record, the Star etc. Subtle - yes - but not if you are in the know. How many of you have been left uptight by the way reporters have seemingly biased articles they have written and taken the stance that their way is the righteous way? Commonly referred to as investigative reporting - but how can an investigator be biased if they are to give an impartial report?

 

Beginning to ramble on a bit now so I will come back to the point of this thread: I do care - and I care a heck of a lot about the law of this land and how it was constructed, used and enforced for many many years. However, what I now find is that it is the gutter press - most of them - who are manipulating us and in turn the Government into trying to do things about certain crimes - rahter than leave it to the courts to deal with as they did do for all those years previously (okay they didn't always get it right then either). What we now have is the press choosing to highlight a particular crime so they can take the moral highground - on behalf of the public -with the Government and try to embarrass them into doing something more than is already available to the courts.

 

This in turn, leads to Ministers openly saying they are going to do this and that - before they have even raised a bill in Parliament to see if they can get a general concensus on the need to change the law as it stands at present. This is where the problems really start as well. Why? because the minister raises his bill, gets support from it and it gets passed through

the Parliament and is subsumed into the law of the land - but in most cases it is badly written law because it has been rushed through. In the year or years following the assuming of this law, the bad parts are those that are used by lawyers - who are only doing their job - to get clients off with the charges laid against them. And we - the general public - get annoyed - and rightly so.

 

Please all be very cautious of what the press reports - or should I say how it reports?

 

Someone earlier in this thread said we have the best judicial laws .... Innocent until proven guilty! Please do not take this comment the wrong way...dream on then!

 

Depending on what crime you are accused of in this country, how you are dealt with - will depend more on how the press deals with you - rather than how the legal system does. Why? Because it depends on what the papers moral high ground is at that time.

 

When all the Irish problems were ongoing, people were being named and shamed - sometimes even before the Guardia had a chance to make their own enquiries or arrests. Sex tends to grab headlines more easily - because it is easy to take the high ground rather than consider the facts - look at the big sellers on a sunday, News of the world, people, etc, etc filled often with more **** that you can expect from a herd of cows in any given day. How many footballers have now been duped into the oh so frequent hotel situation now? The honey trap was also used by the KGB during the cold war!

Emotional crimes are another area where you will be convicted mainly by the press and it's often whipped up indignation of what the person is accused of. Look at the meal it has made of the current divorce proceeding of Johnny Vegas. The guy has gone from being someone who got divorced on the grounds his wife was drunken and abusive towards him to him being bi-sexual and outright gay! Who makes up that drivel - and so what if he is gay - that is his life choice. Apparently they got divorced on the grounds they were never ever together!

How many of us read about Mathew Kelly (is that the right one?) a few years ago and immediately had him down as a paedophile - based on the grounds of what we read in the press at the time. Named, shamed and convicted all in the first day of reporting. How large was the retraction later printed by the press?

John Leslie - his lifestyle may not have been our choice but boy - the papers couldn't wait for Abbie to give them the details so

they could pillorise the guy.

And for how long is the Daily Express going to continue with their "Diana was murdered by a British intelligence plot ordered by Prince Phillip? Really, this whole saga was generated by a bitter old man who has twice now been denied Brittish Nationality. I feel for the man as he lost a son, any man who can lose a son and not feel upset is hard. But come on, can the Country not see he is orchestrating this whole thing -because he has money and a grudge against having been denied Nationality. And he - expects the Queen to go into the witness box to be cross examined? Boy - wouldn't he have just loved that!

 

Now we come to the real crunch regarding the Law in our great country as it stands today.

As members of the EEC, we have to adhere in Principal to the overarching laws they provide. Hence the usage in Britain of the Human Rights Act. Don't get me wrong here - this has many good factors to make it worthwhile - however, because our Politicians agreed to it being a part of our Governance - many of our own Laws are now in jeopardy or defunct altogether. Not because we are bad to our prisoners - but because we have now to provide them with so much more - or the Government is held liable for breaching their human rights.

 

I did say in Principal above. And this is where the strong Government can be a bonus - if we had one - by saying NO! that does not suit our Governance under British Law so we will not adapt that aspect of it. There has to be something wrong whereby a con has more freebies and rights than a free person or a pensioner who fought for their country in one way or another? Free meals, free heating, free medical, dental and eye health care. Even their day to day life is far better and more rewarding than the other groups mentioned.

 

Blimey - I've really went on a bit here :o

 

I say nail the ******* with bread and water most of the week, supplemented by vitamins when needed and also meat on a sunday - if they have behaved all week and worked hard. I don't care about all those great reformed prisoners who are now self made millionaires and so on - basically because they have made their money from writing about how they beat the system - they are the exception rather than the rule.

 

Prison is meant to mean something that is punitive to the offender so that they think long and hard before commiting a crime again. The number of re-offenders we have - in my opinion - clearly show that this is not the case.

 

pushkin

[Big_Sam]

ruddy ell pushkin, you been busy.....