sambo1 Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Hi, I need your advice.... I have picked up some new 12g shells from the local gun shop but I’m not sure on the distance of the shot. The shells are marked: Kent Velocity 70mm 7 and a 1/2 - 28 gms I’m using a Baikal with 30" barrels with no chokes. All opinions would be welcomed, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 A couple of questions. What do you mean by "distance of the shot", do you mean "effective range", if so what is the quarry ? Secondly, are you sure your Baikal has "no chokes" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 There has been a difinitive test of the range of shot gun pellets .The test as i remember was government sponsored . As i remember , lead no 6 shot could only travel a maximum of 280 metres in ideal conditions and lead no 7 shot could only travel under ideal conditions a maxium of 260 metres . As i can remember clay grounds now have to have a minimum of a 300 metre safty zone . Hope this helps . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden22 Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 There has been a difinitive test of the range of shot gun pellets .The test as i remember was government sponsored . As i remember , lead no 6 shot could only travel a maximum of 280 metres in ideal conditions and lead no 7 shot could only travel under ideal conditions a maxium of 260 metres . As i can remember clay grounds now have to have a minimum of a 300 metre safty zone . Hope this helps . Harnser . Not contradicting you Harnser, as I am by no means certain, but I seem to remember 350 rather than 300. It might have been in another topic on here actually, someone setting up a clay ground. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 There has been a difinitive test of the range of shot gun pellets .The test as i remember was government sponsored . As i remember , lead no 6 shot could only travel a maximum of 280 metres in ideal conditions and lead no 7 shot could only travel under ideal conditions a maxium of 260 metres . As i can remember clay grounds now have to have a minimum of a 300 metre safty zone . Hope this helps . Harnser . Not contradicting you Harnser, as I am by no means certain, but I seem to remember 350 rather than 300. It might have been in another topic on here actually, someone setting up a clay ground. Robert Robert , You could be right with the 350 metre safety zone . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambo1 Posted June 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 Thanks for your replies, The Baikal has a fixed choke and the quarry at the moment covers rabbits, pigeons and crows. Overall, as Im new to shooting, Im struggling with the effective range - I dont want to be wasting lead if the quarry is too far away. If you could give me some pointers on the sort of range I should be shooting within, I would appreciate it. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 http://www.basc.org.uk/content/respect_for_quarry_code_o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden22 Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 (edited) Hi, I need your advice.... I have picked up some new 12g shells from the local gun shop but I’m not sure on the distance of the shot. The shells are marked: Kent Velocity 70mm 7 and a 1/2 - 28 gms I’m using a Baikal with 30" barrels with no chokes. All opinions would be welcomed, Are you sure about the cartridges? According to the Gamebore website, Kent Velocity are only available as 30/32g no 6. Thanks for your replies, The Baikal has a fixed choke and the quarry at the moment covers rabbits, pigeons and crows. Overall, as Im new to shooting, Im struggling with the effective range - I dont want to be wasting lead if the quarry is too far away. If you could give me some pointers on the sort of range I should be shooting within, I would appreciate it. Cheers Just an opinion, but I would keep these for clays, and would use 30 or 32g no 6 for birds, and a bit bigger for rabbits. Depending on chokes and your ability, between 30 and 40 yards. How tight are the fixed chokes? Robert Edit: It might be agood idea to make sure you're allowed to use plastic wads where you're shooting, as they can be dangerous to certain animals. A lot of people only use fibre wads either for this reason or out of general principle. Edited June 1, 2008 by Maiden22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasbeaton Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 4 32 grms for rabits at a miximun of 40 yards, with a half choke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Here we go again...my (seemingly) one man campaign about people who buy guns and shoot without knowing the basics! Effective range of a 12 bore shotgun using standard cartridges is no more than 45yds BUT how many people can accurately gauge that distance? Not many given the answers I've heard at various events and courses AND it's even worse for rifle shooters. If you're new to the sport then get some lessons, go on a course and/or find a (reliable, experienced) mentor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cushat Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 7 1/2 not suitable for rabbits or crows and only at pigeons closer in (25yds). If you bought these for specifically for game/vermin you've been had! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambo1 Posted June 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Thanks for you feedback guys. Bit of a shame about Highlanders attitude but understandable. Being new to shooting its the same old story of how do you get in to the sport when you dont know anyone else that's in to shooting. I have done a full day coaching course, attended a gun handling/safely course and had several private lessons. I have also taken another members advice and purchased a book titled "the art of good shooting" - it was a good read. We all had to start somewhere and I suspect I have done more towards being competent before buying a shotgun, that most other beginners have. During coaching lessons, there are only so many questions you can ask before you come across like a bit of ****. Hence the reason why I use this forum to learn for others. I did purchase the 7 1/2's for clays but just want to get out there and get some experience. I have picked up a box of 6's and will give them a go - if nothing else, to learn from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 If you want to buff up on your knowledge use the search function at the top right of the page, it`s very enlightening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter-peter Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 There has been a difinitive test of the range of shot gun pellets .The test as i remember was government sponsored . As i remember , lead no 6 shot could only travel a maximum of 280 metres in ideal conditions and lead no 7 shot could only travel under ideal conditions a maxium of 260 metres . As i can remember clay grounds now have to have a minimum of a 300 metre safty zone . Hope this helps . Harnser . Not contradicting you Harnser, as I am by no means certain, but I seem to remember 350 rather than 300. It might have been in another topic on here actually, someone setting up a clay ground. Robert its 300 metres we've just had some land past for section11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden22 Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Thanks for the info Peter. Thanks for you feedback guys. Bit of a shame about Highlanders attitude but understandable. Being new to shooting its the same old story of how do you get in to the sport when you dont know anyone else that's in to shooting. I have done a full day coaching course, attended a gun handling/safely course and had several private lessons. I have also taken another members advice and purchased a book titled "the art of good shooting" - it was a good read. We all had to start somewhere and I suspect I have done more towards being competent before buying a shotgun, that most other beginners have. During coaching lessons, there are only so many questions you can ask before you come across like a bit of ****. Hence the reason why I use this forum to learn for others. I did purchase the 7 1/2's for clays but just want to get out there and get some experience. I have picked up a box of 6's and will give them a go - if nothing else, to learn from. Good choice, 6's should do the trick for most flying things within 40 yds - assuming the barrels are pointing in the right direction of course. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayman Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Definitive testing of shot fall out distances was carried out in testing by the CPSA to support their safety recommendations. This was an independent test done under scientific conditions and there is a published paper on it. ie, the quality of the information would stand up in court. The results were that shot sizes 7-9 all fell at around 200m in still weather at 24 degrees. It made little difference what load ( 24g / 28g / 32g ) or gauge or choke was used, all fall outs where 200m +/- 10m at most. Shot size 6, how-ever, has more inertia and traveled up to another 20m or so. Windage could add significantly to the drift, and up to an extra 50m was observed with back wind. The CPSA's recommended minimum safety distance of 275m in all directions of fire was therefore supported by the findings. The CPSA will only allow grounds to join if they have 275m of safety when all shot sizes 6 - 9 are allowed. ( there is a special dispensation scheme for certain grounds to restrict shot to 8 and 9 only, and have 250m, but this is by application and agreement following inspection). Loads heavier than 6 will travel further, there are ballistic programs this can be simulated on ( the CPSA did not test game loads) , and another 10m for each shot size down would be a good estimate. Jerry Parks Young CPSA Senior Safety Officer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden22 Posted June 7, 2008 Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 Definitive testing of shot fall out distances was carried out in testing by the CPSA to support their safety recommendations. This was an independent test done under scientific conditions and there is a published paper on it. ie, the quality of the information would stand up in court. The results were that shot sizes 7-9 all fell at around 200m in still weather at 24 degrees. It made little difference what load ( 24g / 28g / 32g ) or gauge or choke was used, all fall outs where 200m +/- 10m at most. Shot size 6, how-ever, has more inertia and traveled up to another 20m or so. Windage could add significantly to the drift, and up to an extra 50m was observed with back wind. The CPSA's recommended minimum safety distance of 275m in all directions of fire was therefore supported by the findings. The CPSA will only allow grounds to join if they have 275m of safety when all shot sizes 6 - 9 are allowed. ( there is a special dispensation scheme for certain grounds to restrict shot to 8 and 9 only, and have 250m, but this is by application and agreement following inspection). Loads heavier than 6 will travel further, there are ballistic programs this can be simulated on ( the CPSA did not test game loads) , and another 10m for each shot size down would be a good estimate. Jerry Parks Young CPSA Senior Safety Officer That souds pretty definitive. Harnser, looks like you were right to begin with. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr Pieman Posted June 29, 2008 Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 Hi Sambo, all gun/cartridge combinations are different, so I'd suggest you 'pattern plate' your set up. Get a roll of lining paper, cut it into 2ft lengths, and then draw a fluffy bunny (or something the size of a fluffy bunny's vital organs/head) onto each sheet. As a youngster, my father used to use a cigarette packet as the 'lethal zone' when he taught to pattern my gun. We'd look for a shot density that wouldn't allow any empty spaces bigger than a cigarette packet. I guess the modern equivalent would be look for spaces the size of an iPod Classic - 30gb!!!! Next, pin a sheet to a piece of board - make sure you know where the shot is going to fall/safe backstop - and walk back 20 yards. Fire at the fluffy bunny picture, and look at the pattern of holes. There should be sufficient pellets hitting the image for you to feel the fluffy bunny - if real - would become 'life extinct'! Then, do the same thing from 25 yrds, 30 yrds etc. At some point, you'll find the spread is so wide, that the fluffy bunny is unlikely to be hit, or so few pellets hit the fluffy bunny's vital organs/head, that you think he'd run home to his family with a bad limp. If you fire three or four cartridges at that distance and you consistently get big gaps, move back 5 yards nearer the target. This distance, I would suggest would be the appropriate killing distance for your gun/cartridge combination. If you'd like it mathematically: Killing distance = distance at which gaps bigger than an iPod - 5 yards The numbers on theoretical hitting power etc really become incidental - if you can't put sufficient lead onto the target, the fluffy bunny isn't going to undertake 'the sleep ever-eternal'!! As an aside, once you know the distance, practice pacing it out, so you can get it set in your mind and you'll know if you miss (and it was inside the distance) the miss was likely to have been caused by something other than the gun/cartridge Mr P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy W Posted June 29, 2008 Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 Find out what the gun is choked at first of all either by markings or ask a gun smith to measure it then you can make a more informed decision on what you intend to shoot at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambo1 Posted June 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 As usual, the feedback has been brilliant, thank you. Mr Pieman - legendary advice - I will get out into the paddock this afternoon and put together my first pattern plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 Pieman what the hell is a ipod and how big is it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 You get many sizes but I would hazard a guess that the one he is on about is the size of a large box of matches. FM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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