Insurance

[Piebob]

all i require is insurance

 

Why don't you just go and buy some then? You don't need to join anything, just phone around or get some online quotes. Job done.

[choke it]

i have been a member of the N.G.O and BASC for years luckly i've never needed them and hopefully never will i pay gamekeeper rates on the two and for under £90 for them both it's worth my piece of mind

[al4x]

seeing as cost is usually the issue David wouldn't it be an idea to offer membership on monthly DD £5 a month or so no one would miss. You would have the perks of having more control on your income and just make it auto renewing untill membership is cancelled. Members would see it as less of a lump sum payment and wouldn't have to think about it as much. Were it a success in increasing membership significantly (which I think it would do) you could then look at lowering the membership cost and everybody would be even happier about

[webber]

Ice

 

Your comment is priceless, and almost beggars belief.

 

I recall making my first application for SGC, and approached a man whom I knew was into shooting, and had also known me for many years, to countersign my application. I attended his house at the approinted time, and over a cup of tea, he went over the form details, photos etc He told me that he would sign my form, but not that day. He then went on to stress the importance of shooting insurance and the good work done by BASC. I took his point and returned a couple of weeks later armed with a BASC membership card.

 

Since then, I have signed many applications for other people, and have adopted the stance taken by Dennis, in all but one case, I made an exception, but never again.

 

I had a customer who was keen to learn to shoot, but a little short of cash, so I overlooked my BASC requirement on this occasion. I took him to a couple of clay grounds, and went through the basics whilst he awaited his SGC. Some time later he had aquired his own gun, and I had obtained permission from one of my landowners to set up a clay trap for a couple of hours one summers evening. We arrived in the newbies Freelander, my son haveing arrived shortly before to set up the trap. I went to the rear of his car to get my gun and cartridges etc. As I emerged from the back of his car I was greeted with two shots into the ground just a few inches from my feet. What the hell! "sorry, I tripped" says he!

 

We shot a few clays, then in fading light had to perform minor surgery with a Leatherman and keyfob light, as his mate had substituted kidney beans for ear plugs, and one was stuck. Haveing performed my good deed for the day, I declared an end to proceedings, and after collecting my sons exhaust system off the road made for home.

 

That was just over 5 years ago. I had told the noob that I wouldnt be shooting with him again, and was therefore surprised when I got a knock on my door a few months ago, you can guess who it was!

 

Do you have your BASC card? ------------------------------------- Er. no, whats that?

Shooting insurance? --------------------------------------------------Er, no, I dont use the gun much.

OK, come back when you have a card; Its foolish to shoot without insurance. What would you have done if you had shot my foot off?----- Not sure, thanks for nothing!

 

webber

[webber]

Al4x

 

My company is paid by around 50% of its customers by DD, and you do make a good point. However small amounts are quite costly to collect in terms of resourse and fees.

 

That said maybe BASC could explore quarterly payment options, but I guess that they may need to levy a small additional charge to cover the additional overhead incurred.

 

webber

[cjw]

I went to the rear of his car to get my gun and cartridges etc. As I emerged from the back of his car I was greeted with two shots into the ground just a few inches from my feet. What the hell! "sorry, I tripped" says he!

 

 

 

IF this had happened to me i would have said PUT YOUR GUN BACK IN THE CAR AND SEE YOU LATER i defenitley wouldn,t have let him shoot any clays at all not while i,m stood there anyway.

 

cjw

[webber]

The problem was that I was a passenger in his car!

 

webber

[CharlieT]

My BASC Insurance renewal has just come around, at the rate of £68 for the year.

 

This is way to much, and i've decided i'm no longer going to pay for there fancy dinners, flash cars and private armourys, stocked with rare and fancy weapons of all sorts.

 

Here we go again. Decroyffe my friend, your BASC insurance renewal is not £68. About £10 of that is for the insurance and the rest is for the whole raft of exceptionally valuable services that BASC provides for its members. If it were not for BASC (and WAGBI before it) believe me that ordinary guys like you and me would have nowhere to shoot, nothing to shoot at and nothing to shoot with. Only the toffs and their ilk would be able to shoot in Britain. In my opinion, no-one in the UK today deserves to carry a gun unless he also carries a BASC membership card.

 

Your second sentence is laughable ****eballs. For three years I went down every month to BASC HQ to attend Council meetings, travelling a round trip of 600 miles, and I never got anything more than a few sandwiches and an apple for lunch. The staff who get cars get practical pick-up trucks, not flash cars, to use transporting stuff around the country during the 60-hour weeks they typically work. And the BASC armoury consists only of historic pieces that have been gifted by members - not a penny of members' cash has been spent on them.

 

So please do us a favour and get a grip of reality.

 

Eric Begbie

 

Eric

 

You have excelled yourself this time. The BASC anti toffs and their ilk attitude is completely unnecessary and uncalled for and as for your view on shooters being required to join the BASC smacks of communist card carrying at its very worst.

 

As a young chap keen on wildfowling I joined WAGBI back in the very early 60's shooting on the Wash and the Ouse washes most weekends. I am also a member of the BFSS (CA) as hunting is my great love. I feel that as a member of both I have helped fly the flag and shown my support in my own small way.

 

However, your views and comments are in my view beyond the pail. I am now completely convinced the BASC have lost their way and are out of touch with reality.

 

I shall never again support the BASC .

[webber]

Charlie

 

I'm sorry, but I agree with Eric on this one. BASC has done a great amount of work to promote and protect shooting over the years. I'm not too sure that too many of the other organisations would have the resource or ability. BASC may not be perfect, and certainly is not the cheapest, but the best rarely is.

 

webber

[Glenshooter]

There's two issues here ref insurance.

 

1) standard - if you have an accident type insurance that we are familiar with

 

but also

 

2) if there is hassle over your shooting with the cops/neighbours/etc etc (and that is possibly the most likely.) it is then that the BASC comes into its own. No other organisation can offer the amount of support that can be offered, and is offered, by BASC. They are a professional, respected and IMHO excellent organisation. Considering the amount of money that I spend on shooting, the annual subscription for me is good value.

 

But please join something that supports shooting.

 

Also, anyone who comes wanting to shoot on my land, is asked for their proof of membership of a shooting organisation. I take a very dim view of anyone who does not support shooting by being a member of a proper organisation.

 

Any airgunners who are members of BASA get horsed off extremely quickly - and I don't hesitate to tell them why.

[CharlieT]

Webber

 

You misunderstood me. My comments were nothing to do with costs but all to do with Eric's and therefore I presume BASC's views.

 

Eric has on more than one occasion made reference in his various posts to "toffs". I find this sort of comment, on an open forum, from the spokesman of our representative body offensive, totally unnecessary and unproductive. Just the sort of comment one would expect to read in the News of the World.

 

As for his card carrying dogma.....................what about free choice. There is a place for all the various organisations, it's called choice. BASC are getting a little above themselves suggesting that BASC membership should be compulsory for shooters.

 

I am not a BASC knocker although I sometimes privately wonder what planet they are on but now I know.......... they ain't on this one.

 

As I do not wish to be represented by people with such views I will not be renewing my membership.

[mossy835]

iv not had insurence for 5 years, why do you need it if you do it all right,i stick two farms that i can shoot on do not go on land i should not go on,i shoot along, all ways have i know all my 18 farms.only 2 have foot paths on them.been shooting for 45 years only one time have i been asked two show my licence buy a copper.that was next two a marine camp witch iv had for 30 years.do it all right and its fine.pick a hole in that.

Edited July 7, 2008 by mossy835

[Glenshooter]

...made reference in his various posts to "toffs". I find this sort of comment, on an open forum, from the spokesman of our representative body offensive, totally unnecessary and unproductive. ...........

I am not a BASC knocker although I sometimes privately wonder what planet they are on but now I know.......... they ain't on this one.

Are you saying that because someone (from the BASC) uses the word "toff" - they are on another planet?

[Piebob]

I suspect you will find that Eric comments are his personal thoughts and not necessarily those of BASC. If I recall correctly, he is no longer a BASC representative.

[Harnser]

Hear we go again B.A.S.C. bashing again . It seems to rear its ugly head every so often . I have had issues in the past with the way B.A.S.C. represented certain members over the pistol ban ,but that is all over with and i am still a supporter of the best shooting voice we have . You may not want to be a member of B.A.S.C. but you must have some kind of insurance . I would rather be shot by a B.A.S.C. member than a none member . You wont come out with me if you are not insured . Harnser .

[dazza]

iv not had insurence for 5 years, why do you need it if you do it all right,i stick two farms that i can shoot on do not go on land i should not go on,i shoot along, all ways have i know all my 18 farms.only 2 have foot paths on them.been shooting for 45 years only one time have i been asked two show my licence buy a copper.that was next two a marine camp witch iv had for 30 years.do it all right and its fine.pick a hole in that.

 

So no need for car insurance then if you drive perfectly within the law and do everything right?

[David BASC]

Of all the almost 900 claims I have seen with BASC, all but one were caused by very experienced shooters- who had a blemish free record up to that point, who thought they were doing it safely etc.

 

OK maybe your land only has one footpath but it may have trespassers, farm workers etc not just members of the public using the path.

 

Also, membership or organisations should bring you so much more than insurance!

 

Pick a hole in your argument, I don’t have to I just feel sorry for the poor devil you shoot and injure. And yes I have seen it done a 19 yo lost a foot to a shooter who forgot his gun was loaded – the shooter had no insurance cover- he was a very safe and experienced shot you see who did not need it……..

 

David

[bob300w]

Hear we go again B.A.S.C. bashing again . It seems to rear its ugly head every so often . I have had issues in the past with the way B.A.S.C. represented certain members over the pistol ban ,but that is all over with and i am still a supporter of the best shooting voice we have . You may not want to be a member of B.A.S.C. but you must have some kind of insurance . I would rather be shot by a B.A.S.C. member than a none member . You wont come out with me if you are not insured . Harnser .

 

B)

 

The voice of sanity and reason at last.

[BSA Shaun]

Funnily enough my renewal has arrived in the last few days and my initial thoughts were £68 seems a lot.

 

I then equated it to a year £68 / 12 = £5.66 a month.

 

That's less than 2 pints - and a beer won't help me if I'm in the myre

Edited July 8, 2008 by BSA Shaun

[Ice]

Alright PW Police and the associated keyboard hero's who are extreamly quick to jump on a comment with strenght and valour.

 

If you one day manage to read a comment and manage to interpret the true meaning, ill rip my head off and **** inside it before re-fixing again, then maybe ill see your approach to things....

 

As it says clearly, "Although i dont have insurance just yet, it will not be BASC i insure with"

 

A bit like saying telling your wife im going to clean the shed sometime, but never get round to doing it.......

 

And since the last time i actually fired a gun was a few weeks back and on a clay ground (which are insured), you could say it had slipped my mind, as im sure you will agree, my shotgun can not do much damage when its locked up and unloaded can it......... although im sure one of you will find a dangerous and deadly point of having a gun locked up and unloaded.......

 

And just so the PW Police can sleep a bit better at night i now have N.G.O insurance £30 12 months, i have nothing against BASC at all as im fully aware of what they do for shooters thumbs up to them, so david please dont take it personally, but if BASC could compete with a no frills insurance i would gladly take it up.

[Ice]

Id go as far as to say that, insurance for shooting must be made compulsory, a bit like having car insurance.

 

Although i dont have insurance just yet, it will not be BASC i insure with as, the main point of arguement is cost....

 

I was insurance for 12 months and thats it, not ***** with magazines or anything daft associated with it, all i want is insurance like car insurance, i dont get magazines with that, and i dont want them, they fall into the same catagory as junk mail and promptly get filed under B.

 

You would like to see shooting insurance made compulsory, yet you regularly go shooting without any? If you feel so strongly about having insurance shouldn't you have purchased some before taking your gun out?

B)

Beyond belief innit?

 

What’s beyond belief is the person who reads a statement, which clearly states a fact, but then feels the need to question it just to clarify the authenticity of it....

 

What a detective he would make hey???

Edited July 8, 2008 by Ice

[Macnab]

Yup my membership is up for renewal at the end of this month and I have just filled in the direct debit form for the future, but I would say a few things (mostly echoing what other people have said already - sorry about that!) -

 

1) Quarterly direct debit would probably deal with quite a few of the 'shall I/shan't I renew?' moments that come around all too often, when the payment is an annual lumpsum?

 

2) I too find some of Eric's comments rather unnecessary, whether or not he is still an officer is slightly irrelevant. 'Toffs out, etc' is a nonsense. Puts me in mind of that ridiculous car insurance advert....

Shooting is a broad church so let your gun or rifle do the talking for you.

 

3) Quite simply everyone should have adequate insurance. That's the thing about accidents - you never know when or where they will strike. Be it with BASC or anyone else just get some or stay well away from me.

 

4) The work that BASC, and presumably other bodies, do behind the scenes helps ALL of us whether members or not. I for one am happy to contribute to that as I love my shooting and want to be able to take my sons out with me one day. The reassurance of experts at the end of a phone line should I need them is a bonus.

 

M

[David BASC]

Ice, no I do not take it personally, I fully appreciate that if the NGO 'do it for you' than fair play mate- just glad you have got yourself covered. I would love it if you joined BASC, but fully understand your reason for not doing so.

 

BASC will never compete on price and will never offer an ‘insurance only’ deal – we set out our stall, try to maintain the best membership package available- and deliver the best possible safeguard for the future of shooting- but as a price.

 

I am not saying the others don’t do their bit, of course they do, both on their own and through the British Shooting Sports Council, all I would say is because BASC is larger, has more resources, perhaps you can reasonably expect and demand that we do a bit more than those who are smaller or have fewer resources.

 

What is a little annoying is that most shooters are not members of anything, all that the associations do to keep shooting and all its aspects alive is supported by the minority that are prepared to do the right thing and support their sport – just imaging how powerful the British Shooting Sports Council would be if they represented not 250,000 shooters but the thick end of a million!

 

Imagine how much more each of the organisations could do individually for their areas of shooting and for their members and supporters if their memberships were 4x what they are now!

 

You may or may not find it surprising that I know the NGO, CPSA and CA guys pretty well and have plenty of friendly chats with them at shows and events- there is no animosity between us, friendly rivalry most certainly but no back stabbing!

 

We may not all agree as representative organisations on every issue in shooting, gamekeeping, conservation etc as I am sure all of you are very aware and much to the benefit of some of the shooting magazines who love a bit of controversy / difference of opinion between organisations – cos it sells more mags!

 

But we all nail our colours to the mast and people follow who they see suits them the best, based on policy AND price.

 

OK Eric has ruffled a few feathers (as have I in the past!) I am sure he meant no harm, sometimes passion can come over the wrong way I guess.

 

Quarterly DD- I am all in favour of it. Like many of you I suspect I try to spread all my bills with phased payments.

 

The only ‘risk’ we have is that as a large percentage of our membership are live quarry shooters, and the season runs from say August to Feb – but with the vast majority of our members shooting from September onwards…we run the risk of people paying for 1 quarter in say August, relying on the 90 day period of grace on the liability policy, getting all the insurance cover etc for the season and then cancelling! In Feb having paid only 1 installment - yep it is a very real threat but in my opinion one that is negated by the fact that the vast almost of people that join BASC will not do this, they will join because of the insurance of course, but will stay because of the other benefits and what we do for shooting.

[al4x]

I think you're worrying about nothing with the quarterly payment issue David, as there aren't that many people who only use their guns during the game season. Personally from a business perspective I think by writing auto renewal details into your terms you'd find the membership far easier to retain and people wouldn't need to see a lump payment once a year that made them question whether to stay with you or move to a cheaper organisation.

Edited July 8, 2008 by al4x

[David BASC]

To be honest i think you are spot on

 

David