Cosd Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 I know this has been done before but all are slightly different scenarios, so here's mine: I currently don't live at home (building works going on) I own two sotguns both now registered with two different certificate holders I have been invited to go to shoot on private owned land Can I take both shotguns and let my brother in law use one when he doesn't have a certificate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 No if you read the law on this it states using the land owners gun on the land owners land in the land owners presence . Depends how you read it best bet is to ring your feo and see what there take on the matter is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richie76 Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 I asked my FLO and he said.. The non cert holder must be accompanied by a cert holder at all times (next to him- not at the other end of the field) and the land owner must be informed about the non cert holder wishing to shoot and must grant him permission. If unsure ring your local FLO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webber Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Its an absolute NO webber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POW! Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Legaly Wrong ...... Morraly Right !!! We had our Family clay shoot a few days ago at my Brother in laws Farm , , He left to get more clays , Did we stop ..... ?? as we had friends who never shot before , !!!! :blink: We now have 6 folk who wish to take up shooting !!!!!, POW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted December 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 We (myself and the non certificate owner) have permision to shoot by the landowner. My take on this was that I could take a second gun and let the 'non certificate owner hold and use the gun as long as he is next to me and not at the oposite end of the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richie76 Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Its an absolute NO webber too who's post webber??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted December 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 I have just sent David BASC a message and asked if he can add any value to this. Thanks so far guys!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 the only one who can lend a shot gun two any one is the land owner, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 the only one who can lend a shot gun two any one is the land owner, They have just said that both the Police AND basc have said that he could lend a shotgun Where did that come from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 i wouldnt do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevethefish Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 I was always under the impression you could lend a gun to a non cert holder as long as you were supervising them. They are not allowed to take the gun away from your presence but can shoot without a cert. The landowner must be informed and full permission granted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 So you are borrowing your own guns off the two people who now have them registered to them who wont be present when you go onto another persons land who you say has given permission for you to shoot and then your going to lend one of the guns thats registered to someone else to another person who has not got a certificate. Its all very simple,....stuff the shooting go on the drink instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richie76 Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 (edited) So you are borrowing your own guns off the two people who now have them registered to them who wont be present when you go onto another persons land who you say has given permission for you to shoot and then your going to lend one of the guns thats registered to someone else to another person who has not got a certificate. Its all very simple,....stuff the shooting go on the drink instead. Very well pointed out Bb, He's not mentioned how the guns will be transported too,But i have to agree with you..Cosd If i was in your shoe's id not go, I know the chance is really tempting,But you could end up opening a can of worms, Have you got insurace?? I'm guessing not Have you got a SGC?? Edited December 31, 2008 by richie76 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 How about we try the right section................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 whichever is the right one, it needs to be written so we all understand it. why cant somebody contact the bods and let them know it needs re-writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted January 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Very well pointed out Bb, He's not mentioned how the guns will be transported too,But i have to agree with you..Cosd If i was in your shoe's id not go, I know the chance is really tempting,But you could end up opening a can of worms, Have you got insurace?? I'm guessing not Have you got a SGC?? Richie76, What is your problem? For your information I do have a SGC, I am insured with BASC and my FEO is fully aware of my situation at home and that two guns I own are registered at two different addresses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzy518 Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 This subject has been debated here on another thread..The bottom line is that there is and has not been any legal definition of the term occupier and the Home Office Manual of Guidance issued to the police makes a recommendation that in terms of the definition of occupier , the police use the definition as prescribed in the Countryside and wildlife act, which takes the occupier to be anyone with shooting rights / permission etc, as opposed to that of the firearms act which suggests the occupier to be landowner. However, the manual also states that it is for each chief of police to decide whether they take this recommendation or not.. We are then left with some counties which do adopt the C&WA definition and others that still use the Firearms act definition......not a good state of affairs for the shooter. Until legislation is passed that removes the current ambiguities and nationalises the Occupier issue all we can do is check with our respective FEOs to see from which hymn sheet the respective force is singing from. (Nothing has been done for the last 30 years and I cant see anything changing soon) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POW! Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 This has been a " Hot potato" for as long as I can remember , As stated , it realy does want clarifying and making it clear in leymans terms , An incident I have knowledge of > Ten years ago , I let out 150 acres out on a grazing licence [ typical gladstone and bower] , to the neighbouring Farmer , two guys who shoot om his land asked him if yhey could shoot on the land he rented , [ ten times more to shoot than his , ] he said yes , with out consulting anyone , the first time they shot was a roost wood , well into dark by 3 hours , I was away on business and householders nearby called the police , > 2 days later , they called to see me over the episode , my first knowledge , the police man was unaware of the gun law in any detail at the time , later however both shooters recieved a caution , It was cleared up amicably of sorts , but could have led to armed trespass being issued if common sense and some humble pie were not used , More often than not ,the shooting is on a separate lease on rented or tennanted land , to increase the income , SO each case is " on its own merit" Another incident occured a few months ago on land I gained permission on from the owner , who rents it out , to a cerial grower , I saw a 4x4 parked up , and saw two guys walking with guns , I aproached then asking their intentions , "Pigeon shooting " was the reply ," we have permission frpm the farmer", When I explained the situation , they were most apologetic and imediately stopped , again it could have led to a criminal act , [ AS an aside . with the above , what would YOUR reaction have been??? someone on your permission with a story like that please ] I have writen permission for that land , the first and only I have had in all my years of shooting , MOST wont give writen permission , one reason [ and I know ] is to recind that permission is NOT simple , as a precidense has been set , compensatoin could be payed out , , The legalities now are minefield regards persons on your property , The Corporate Manslaughter one has increased insurance cover , OK you say I am insured by BA.... CP... whatever , but if neglect is proven anywhere , a lawsuit may ensue , How do I know !!!!!! I dont want to go there , litigation can and indeed did last ten years ! The Winners > the Lawyers , . I am sorry that this is not the side of Shooting that is exciting or good reading , Most will pass this post by , It is however Relavant , POW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 As has been said, the law is claer - a non certificate holder can use the occupier of lands gun on the occupiers land in the presence of the occupier. Who is classed as an occupier? Check with your FLO as they all have different thoughts on this D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POW! Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 The Occupier may be the tennant farmer or a grazier , But, most land owners hold the Sporting rights , Unless the Agreement is checked , again a difficult one . There is NO clear answer , Surely it can be clarified a lot easier than at present . POW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosd Posted January 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 The farmer has invited us, the landowner has authorised our invite, I think my question has been answered, my brother in law cannot use one of my guns. If he wants to shoot he needs to borrow a gun and accompanied by the landowner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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