What range with a 243 on live quarry??

[DaveK]

I like that one Al4x

 

There's always one

 

And the armchair experts

[Lloyd90]

IT ALL DEPENDS! Swarvoski scopes have turrets that you can set to different ranges Now If I had one of them scopes and there wasn't any wind I would take a 400 yards shot

 

IT ALL DEPENDS on the conditions, the scenario, how good your scope is. How can you say someone is an idiot for taking a shot like that ? Grow up! Different scenario's will have different outcomes! No one is going out taking 400+ shots at deer in 80mph gale force winds!

 

With the right conditions and gear you could probally take deer further! And I thought 100gr was minimum for deer with the 243 ?

 

I was just reading up on some articles about 243's because I am looking to buy one in the future and found this

 

This is a very capable, accurate bullet. I used this bullet last fall deer hunting and was more than amazed at its performance. Shot a mule deer at 512 yards with it, bullet exited, deer ran about 20 steps and that was it.

 

With enough powder capacity to drive the 0.585 BC 115gr DTACs at 3150+ fps, the .243 Win is an outstanding long-range cartridge. George Gardner of GA Precision recently won the long-range Shumway Cup segment of the 2006 Snipers' Hide Cup shooting a straight .243 Win. In so doing, George bested Terry Cross (.260 Rem) and David Tubb (6XC), so you can see the .243 is a top performer at long distances. In fact, in terms of Wind Drift, a .243 running 115s at 3150 fps beats both the .260 Rem (2850 fps) and the 6.5-284 (2950 fps) running 142 MatchKings.

 

So the 243 has LESS wind drift than a 260 and a 6.5! Don't see why anyone would have a problem with a 400+ yards shot as I have said given the conditions!

Edited March 25, 2009 by Bigthug87

[AndyCM]

No one is going out taking 400+ shots at deer in 80mph gale force winds!

 

And I thought 100gr was minimum for deer with the 243 ?

 

Too right, deer are more sensible than humans to be out in conditions like that

 

100g - if in Scotland (bigger deer, windy, or just another silly rule )

[Lloyd90]

Too right, deer are more sensible than humans to be out in conditions like that

 

100g - if in Scotland (bigger deer, windy, or just another silly rule )

 

Personally Id rather stick to a higher grain bullet for shooting deer no matter where I was just to make sure the job was done well

[AndyCM]

Personally Id rather stick to a higher grain bullet for shooting deer no matter where I was just to make sure the job was done well

 

Hi BT87,

 

Keep researching the centrefires and don't always take too literally the stuff you read.

 

There is a massive difference between a young muntjac in summer and an old Red Stag in winter and everyone has an opinion on calibre and bullet

 

The shot placement is more important than if your bullet is +/- 20g's

 

I believe when it comes to shooting and stalking we are all always learning.

 

Cheers

AndyCM

[Lloyd90]

Hi BT87,

 

Keep researching the centrefires and don't always take too literally the stuff you read.

 

There is a massive difference between a young muntjac in summer and an old Red Stag in winter and everyone has an opinion on calibre and bullet

 

The shot placement is more important than if your bullet is +/- 20g's

 

I believe when it comes to shooting and stalking we are all always learning.

 

Cheers

AndyCM

 

Cheers mate Im sure a more experienced person would be able to do just as good a job as me with lighter grain bullets, but I am yet to complete my first stalk so when I do get around to it I think I'll use the heavier end just so there's less chance of error. After getting some experience will maybe move down but wouldn't like to wound a deer for your first time

[wymberley]

Hi,All,

This whole topic is deteriorating fast. We are in the public domain and are undoubtably being watched. Also any youngsters/newcomers to our sport could be getting the wrong impression.

I thought a 243 was a fullbore.

[flytie]

Hi,All,

This whole topic is deteriorating fast. We are in the public domain and are undoubtably being watched. Also any youngsters/newcomers to our sport could be getting the wrong impression.

I thought a 243 was a fullbore.

Has anyone said it wasn't a fullbore? I don't think so, but correct me if i'm wrong.

 

You will have a job to buy 115grain over the counter here BT, fine if you roll your own, which is the only way to match the figures you quoted. It is a very capable round, and some folks are really gifted shots. But for the lesser mortals amongst us (people like me) long shots are a no no. Thousands of .243 owners can't all be wrong, can they? It's just not my choice, but would I be pleased if Santa brought one? Yes I would.

 

ft

 

PS just read the poll, I am surprised that 27% of average shooters think they are capable of clean kills every time at 400+ yds.

Edited March 25, 2009 by flytie

[DaveK]

Hi,All,

This whole topic is deteriorating fast. We are in the public domain and are undoubtably being watched. Also any youngsters/newcomers to our sport could be getting the wrong impression.

I thought a 243 was a fullbore.

 

Well don't post silly things then.

 

Looks like a pretty sensible discussion to me (sort of)

[Ackley]

well guys looking at the poll results there 13 of us idiots on here

theres a very good 3 dics DVD on the market call "best of the west" this covers every aspect of long range shooting and tells you "how to" from loading to firing

I think I have a copy still which I may sell

[Baldrick]

Without wanting to appear arrogant or confrontational, Flytie, there are some very experienced and capable Shots on here. I would hazard a guess that the 27% who ticked >400 yards are not average Shots. There are many other guys on here, that like me, shoot centrefires almost every day, and have done so for a significant amount of time.

[flytie]

Without wanting to appear arrogant or confrontational, Flytie, there are some very experienced and capable Shots on here. I would hazard a guess that the 27% who ticked >400 yards are not average Shots. There are many other guys on here, that like me, shoot centrefires almost every day, and have done so for a significant amount of time.

I don't feel confronted, maybe a little enlightened by the discussion. I love to see anyone who is a complete master of their art, and have been priviledged to see a former national champion shoot at long range. I feel honoured to be in the prescence of so many exceptional shots, for you all must be, to do as you say.

 

I shoot as my conscience allows, I am glad that you do too. More power to your elbow. But I find a competitive edge to this discussion about shooting live quarry that sits uncomfortably with me. It seems a bit transatlantic in flavour. As long as respect for your quarry comes into the equasion, you and I will not quarrel. I hope one day to be fortunate enough to see you shoot, and maybe buy you a pint.

 

ft

[Harnser]

The long range deer sniper thread seems to come up all the time . If people would just sit down and think how far they actually and truthfully shoot deer at i am convinced that the average range is about 100 yards in lowland woodland and arable . Proberbly twice that range on the scottish hills .

Being a rifleman of many , many years , stalking and county class full bore shooter i know my capabilitys . I still have the confidence and the skill to shoot a deer at 500 yards in the most ideal of conditions , still day,laying prone ,rifle on a bipod or single point sling no undulations in the ground and rifle properperly zeroed . I would have to ask myself is this a safe shot,remember the bullet is going to travel much further before it strikes the deer or the ground and will have a much shallower tragectory and be more prone to ricochet . Is this a sporting shot and should i stalk closer ? Is this necessary to take this long shot ,does this beast have to be killed right now or could it wait for anothe day when hopefully i can sta lk a bit closer .

Thease are the simple questions that i would be asking myself before taking the fabled 500 yard shot . If i could say yes to all the above questions the only time i would make that shot would be if the deer in quetion was injured or had to be finished off before it got dark . But then i would proberbly wait for the next day to stalk closer rather than take that long shot .

Harnser .

[DaveK]

The long range deer sniper thread seems to come up all the time . If people would just sit down and think how far they actually and truthfully shoot deer at i am convinced that the average range is about 100 yards in lowland woodland and arable . Proberbly twice that range on the scottish hills .

Being a rifleman of many , many years , stalking and county class full bore shooter i know my capabilitys . I still have the confidence and the skill to shoot a deer at 500 yards in the most ideal of conditions , still day,laying prone ,rifle on a bipod or single point sling no undulations in the ground and rifle properperly zeroed . I would have to ask myself is this a safe shot,remember the bullet is going to travel much further before it strikes the deer or the ground and will have a much shallower tragectory and be more prone to ricochet . Is this a sporting shot and should i stalk closer ? Is this necessary to take this long shot ,does this beast have to be killed right now or could it wait for anothe day when hopefully i can sta lk a bit closer .

Thease are the simple questions that i would be asking myself before taking the fabled 500 yard shot . If i could say yes to all the above questions the only time i would make that shot would be if the deer in quetion was injured or had to be finished off before it got dark . But then i would proberbly wait for the next day to stalk closer rather than take that long shot .

Harnser .

 

But H, the question was about live quarry in general. Deer came into it later.

[gixer1]

But all live quarry should be shown the same respect, and as deer are one of the largest things we shoot in the UK i would say they present the largest target area so why is it any better to shoot at a rabbit at this range??

[CharlieT]

What really surprises me is the number of hmr owners who claim to head shoot rabbits all day long at ranges of 150 - 200 yds and no one bats an eyelid yet if anyone talks of shooting at 300 or 400 yards with a 243 they are regarded as story tellers or morons.

 

Down here we have some very steep and wide valleys, a shot across them can easily be 400 yards. A 200 yard shot is zero distance, 300 yard common place and 400 quite possible without to much wind. If you grow up shooting crows and foxes at these distances it's no big deal with the right kit and experience.

[DaveK]

What really surprises me is the number of hmr owners who claim to head shoot rabbits all day long at ranges of 150 - 200 yds and no one bats an eyelid yet if anyone talks of shooting at 300 or 400 yards with a 243 they are regarded as story tellers or morons.

 

Down here we have some very steep and wide valleys, a shot across them can easily be 400 yards. A 200 yard shot is zero distance, 300 yard common place and 400 quite possible without to much wind. If you grow up shooting crows and foxes at these distances it's no big deal with the right kit and experience.

 

 

Well said CharlieT. Maybe Gixer hasn't got any rabbits and crows up in Aberdeen or maybe he's anti long shots because he can't do it.

 

Either way I've had enough of this topic, it's going nowhere.

 

Bye all

[gixer1]

Actually it's more likely that it's the respect i have for my quarry.......

[njc110381]

If it's possible to shoot at 200 yards with a HMR then it's possible to shoot at 400 with a .243. What a lot of people (I have to be honest and say myself being one of them) seem to do wrong is put the feelings of a Rabbit lower down the importance scale than that of a Deer. As I say I am guilty of it myself. I always do my very best to get a clean kill no matter what I'm shooting. If I was going to get a gut shot though, I'd rather it was a Rabbit and not a Deer.

 

It has been said already that the trauma from a fast centrefire round will kill a Rabbit with almost any body contact. If you miss the vitals on a Deer the result may not be so clean just because of the size of the animal. Even something like my .375 would leave a runner if a Deer was to be gut shot, yet a gut shot on a Rabbit with my .223 used to do so much damage there was no way the Rabbit could ever survive. Make that a .243 and it would be in pieces, literally. I hit a bunny at around 25 yards with my 6.5x55 and Barnes 130grn TSX some time ago and I actually had to look for parts. Some of them had travelled several feet from the point of impact (where the grass was red not green ), so in a non scientific way I assume it didn't feel much!

[Baldrick]

I don't feel confronted, maybe a little enlightened by the discussion. I love to see anyone who is a complete master of their art, and have been priviledged to see a former national champion shoot at long range. I feel honoured to be in the prescence of so many exceptional shots, for you all must be, to do as you say.

 

I shoot as my conscience allows, I am glad that you do too. More power to your elbow. But I find a competitive edge to this discussion about shooting live quarry that sits uncomfortably with me. It seems a bit transatlantic in flavour. As long as respect for your quarry comes into the equasion, you and I will not quarrel. I hope one day to be fortunate enough to see you shoot, and maybe buy you a pint.

 

ft

 

There's no need for catty sarcasm - I just was making a point. The reason I got on my high horse about 306-yard pot shots with a .17 HMR was because that is unethical. You either miss or completely obliterate a 400-yard rabbit with an 87gr V-Max from a .243.

 

However I don't go in for 'canyon shooting' deer. In fact I have never taken a shot at a deer more than 180 yards away.

[flytie]

There's no need for catty sarcasm - I just was making a point. The reason I got on my high horse about 306-yard pot shots with a .17 HMR was because that is unethical. You either miss or completely obliterate a 400-yard rabbit with an 87gr V-Max from a .243.

 

However I don't go in for 'canyon shooting' deer. In fact I have never taken a shot at a deer more than 180 yards away.

 

Sorry you think I was catty and sarcastic. If I thought you were a twonk I would not have offered you a pint.

 

ft

 

I'm off.

Edited March 26, 2009 by flytie

[casts_by_fly]

But all live quarry should be shown the same respect, and as deer are one of the largest things we shoot in the UK i would say they present the largest target area so why is it any better to shoot at a rabbit at this range??

 

 

Because it's not about target size. With a rabbit, crow, or pigeon, ANY hit with a 243 at any distance (out to 1000 yards) is going to kill it (and likely obliterate it). As baldrick said, you either obliterate it or you miss. With a deer you don't have that buffer. With a deer there is a rabbit-sized vital zone and you either hit it (good), hit around it (not good) or miss (fine). The goal is to minimize any chance you're going to hit around it, and make sure you hit it. If you can honestly minimize the chance that you're going to hit 'around' the kill zone then you can take the shot ethically. If you have to question whether you might hit the non kill zone then you shouldn't take the shot. If you miss a rabbit by inches, then you're in the dirt. If you miss a rabbit sized kill zone on a deer, you harm.

 

With a rabbit, it's all kill zone with a 243.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[Blackbart]

Because it's not about target size. With a rabbit, crow, or pigeon, ANY hit with a 243 at any distance (out to 1000 yards) is going to kill it (and likely obliterate it). As baldrick said, you either obliterate it or you miss. With a deer you don't have that buffer. With a deer there is a rabbit-sized vital zone and you either hit it (good), hit around it (not good) or miss (fine). The goal is to minimize any chance you're going to hit around it, and make sure you hit it. If you can honestly minimize the chance that you're going to hit 'around' the kill zone then you can take the shot ethically. If you have to question whether you might hit the non kill zone then you shouldn't take the shot. If you miss a rabbit by inches, then you're in the dirt. If you miss a rabbit sized kill zone on a deer, you harm.

 

With a rabbit, it's all kill zone with a 243.

 

Thanks,

Rick

 

Good advice

 

This may sound weird but when i scope a fox or a deer, i am looking at the deer or fox but i only concentrate on the target.The target being a coconut on a fox and a melon on a roe and i would imagine a football on a red !(as i have never shot a red)you shouldn't be shooting at the animal,you should be shooting at the coconut,melon or football :blink:

The size of the animal doesnt come into it.You should be concentrating on the size of the clean kill zone.In conclusion if you can hit a football at 400 yards consistently with your 243 then you can cleanly kill a deer at that range.

 

And if you can hit a coconut you have won a teddy bear

[nipper]

". If you have to question whether you might hit the non kill zone then you shouldn't take the shot."

 

That about hits the nail on the head I should think.

 

You know your limits(we ALL have them) and you shoot within your experience and capabilities.

 

It doesn't matter a toss about the cost of your equipment as long as its fit for the job .

An expensive rifle wont make you a better stalker.

Equally a cheaper rifle wont make you worse.

 

In theory ,a .243 can do damage at extreme range .In practise the majority of people choose not to shoot at long range.

I have no doubt there are some people on here that can shoot very well at distance.

Me personally. I don't need to ,and if I have clients I wouldn't let them .

 

The only other thing I thought about while reading the thread is ,Why ? does anybody want to shoot rabbits with a .243??

Seems like an expensive form of vermin control.

[casts_by_fly]

not really when you are reloading. Not as cheap as a 22LR, but not far off an HMR (if not cheaper) with a lot more range. That's my logic with the 223 and 17 AH.

 

Thanks,

Rick