Durham Police---Officer Arrested

[Bazooka Joe]

If, and I emphasise the word "IF" he is guilty of these offences then they should throw the book at him and hand out the maximum sentence permissible! I have only read about this on this forum and we all know that what the parers say MIGHT be blown out of proportion.

I think we need to be a little careful about crucifying someone when we do not know all of the facts for certain as I personally believe that the biggest majority of our police force do a remarkably good and sometimes very difficult job and it is all too easy to "Tar them all with the same brush". when all is said and done you will always get one "rogue" in whatever walk of life you talk about!

 

No one has mentioned papers...& it's not blown out of proportion.

 

As for the Facts....like I've said there's a bit more to it.

 

Just for the record...I think the Law do a decent job, there is a few among them that let the side down, but the biggest let down for them, is the Courts themselves.

 

BJ

[Vince Green]

It seems to me this could have been perfectly ok. If people with valuable weapons had have been given the option of handind them to Licenced dealers for some money, infact it makes environmental sense. What a waste to scrap a perfectly functioning weapon. If they were very low value, then maybe even just give them to a club. My schools club could have used some free shotguns or target rifles for example. However some police officer lining his own pockets, he ought to get charged with embezzlement of public goods, as effectively the firearms etc handed in were I assume public property once signed of to the police. In china you can get massive sentences for stealing public money and incompetence, sadly in Britain you get nothing.

 

A lot of stuff handed in to police gets re-sold anyway through auctions. I don't think anything any good gets scrapped. If you are looking for cheap guns check out Holts Auctioneers website and look at the sealed bid auction on 25th. Probably quite a lot of that stuff has been handed in.

[Dirty Harry]

I think you will find the police do not sell on guns handed in for destruction. This case would appear to be an exeption but it is a criminal one. The reason they don't sell them is because they are so frightened hey will be used in a criminal incident. Imagine the backlash if a child was shot with a gun that was handed in for distruction. I don't think any chief constable would keep their job if that happened.

[starlight32]

No way should they be destroyed unless they are worthless.......Then again there is alot of sense in a lot of the posts earlier-Would you put your name to something that could easily even if there is no criminal element to it bite you heavily on the backside later on?

 

He must have intercepted them prior to them going onto the police system-i.e Someone wants to hand something in and he says;

 

'I can sort that out for you let me give you a little something for it.......'

 

Or it could be another planned/staged witchhunt of a someone who was doing something lawfully but not strictly pc with firearms.. Such as the poor RFD from Dartford, I mean look at that poor fellow, He was given hells kitchen for ambiguity in current law and they tried to well and truly shaft him for it..............

[Vince Green]

I think you will find the police do not sell on guns handed in for destruction. This case would appear to be an exeption but it is a criminal one. The reason they don't sell them is because they are so frightened hey will be used in a criminal incident. Imagine the backlash if a child was shot with a gun that was handed in for distruction. I don't think any chief constable would keep their job if that happened.

Not all guns are handed in for destruction, every time someone dies the police have to deal with the disposal of their guns because the family don't usually know what to do.

So someone dies and they have a cased pair of Purdeys under the bed, What happens then? The police come round and deliver them to a local dealer who sells them for the family. If there was a degree of dishonest practice going on it would probably take the form of collusion between the officer and the dealer.

This would be almost impossible to prove but if the dealer said he only got £50 for the Purdeys who could say he didn't. This would be a lot more "sensible" because while it may be dishonourable its not illegal. At least not from a firearms law point of view but it may still be fraud or theft according to how it was done.

 

Years ago the police used to have "sealed bid" auctions which if you were a registered dealer you could be notified in advance. Our local RFD went to a few but said it was mostly rubbish.

 

All confiscated goods, lost property, etc gets auctioned by police routinely.

Edited September 13, 2009 by Vince Green

[JR1960]

He may well be a nice guy, i won't even say if i was in his position i wouldn't be tempted too. Destroying perfectly good guns is ridiculous etc etc etc. Personally i'd say the same about edged weapons as well. As with all these things it's not the weapon that's the problem it's the t**t that's holding it you've got to worry about. And i realise he was only selling shotguns to cert holders.

 

However, the fact remains he is/was a police officer (worse still an FEO) and in a particular position of authority and privelege. With that comes certain responsabilities.

 

I don't doubt if he found YOU selling firearms illegally he would throw the book at you.

 

Whilst i genuinely feel sorry for the position the guy is in he has no-one to blame but himself and (assuming he is found guilty) i personally hope they make an example of him. There are no excuses its just greed.

[Delbert]

A lot of stuff handed in to police gets re-sold anyway through auctions. I don't think anything any good gets scrapped. If you are looking for cheap guns check out Holts Auctioneers website and look at the sealed bid auction on 25th. Probably quite a lot of that stuff has been handed in.

 

 

Very strange auction for the SCI Rhino appeal I was looking at doubles and each one had this little bombshell in the details

 

 

PLEASE NOTE THIS GUN IS SOLD WITHOUT BARRELS. THE ORIGINAL BARRELS MAY

BE AVAILABLE FOR SLEEVING PURPOSES, BUT WILL ONLY BE RELEASED CUT IN THE

APPROVED MANNER AS PER PROOF HOUSE GUIDELINES. THIS APPLIES TO ALL

BUYERS REGARDLESS OF COUNTRY OF DESTINATION.

 

sort of makes the purchase a bit pointless. Good job I'm not likely to be in London during the other auctions it would be difficult to keep my hands securely in my pockets.

 

Derek

[Fleabag]

http://www.sundaymercury.net/news/midlands...66331-24293761/ Its not just the old bill look at this lot.

[Michael]

Can I just say that I know Maurice Allen personally and theres more to this story than meets the eye. For one it is being misrepresented in the media. It was not, as far as I understand it, a "gun-running plot" at all. Most importantly, PC Allen made no profit from this whatsoever. He simply was a great admirer of guns, he appreciated their "artistic" value.

 

He was trying to help people out, for example, if someone handed in a gun for whatever reason (if they were no longer able to afford to keep it), rather than have it wastefully destroyed, PC Allen would sell it on for the previous owner AT NO PROFIT FOR HIMSELF, which all the papers have failed to report. While this is still technically against the rules, he thought he was doing the right thing, and didnt want to see perfectly good weapons needlessly destroyed. Best of all, everyone in the department did this, and a lot didnt even know it was illegal. it was accepted practice, and to my knowledge several high ranking officers were aware of it and did nothing to stop it. Some even bought weapons this way. The 16 counts of theft he is charged with are theft against the police force, as they claim even though the previous owners allowed him to sell them on, they were technically police property so he technically stole them.

 

It is a perfect example of politics in the police force, PC allen was a highly regarded and respected officer, yest after he became an outspoken critic of the force civilianising several posts, and openly called several high ranking officers liars, his career has mysteriously fallen apart. Best of all, he had 8 receipt books that proved he made no profit from this, yet they have all conveniently been lost from police records.

 

Basically he is a good man who has made himself a lot of enemies and they have destroyed his career and his life because he was so outspoken

[ROBLATCH]

Can I just say that I know Maurice Allen personally and theres more to this story than meets the eye. For one it is being misrepresented in the media. It was not, as far as I understand it, a "gun-running plot" at all. Most importantly, PC Allen made no profit from this whatsoever. He simply was a great admirer of guns, he appreciated their "artistic" value.

 

He was trying to help people out, for example, if someone handed in a gun for whatever reason (if they were no longer able to afford to keep it), rather than have it wastefully destroyed, PC Allen would sell it on for the previous owner AT NO PROFIT FOR HIMSELF, which all the papers have failed to report. While this is still technically against the rules, he thought he was doing the right thing, and didnt want to see perfectly good weapons needlessly destroyed. Best of all, everyone in the department did this, and a lot didnt even know it was illegal. it was accepted practice, and to my knowledge several high ranking officers were aware of it and did nothing to stop it. Some even bought weapons this way. The 16 counts of theft he is charged with are theft against the police force, as they claim even though the previous owners allowed him to sell them on, they were technically police property so he technically stole them.

 

It is a perfect example of politics in the police force, PC allen was a highly regarded and respected officer, yest after he became an outspoken critic of the force civilianising several posts, and openly called several high ranking officers liars, his career has mysteriously fallen apart. Best of all, he had 8 receipt books that proved he made no profit from this, yet they have all conveniently been lost from police records.

 

Basically he is a good man who has made himself a lot of enemies and they have destroyed his career and his life because he was so outspoken

 

in all honesty if i was approached by an officer with what i thought was a bargain i would buy it and why not ? we all expect police to be genuine regardless of press and in my eyes a bargain is a bargain.why should some officer be pulled to the ground for selling what he thinks is a perfectly safe gun ?

like i said in my previous post there has been no mention of the low life scum who stole the gun in the first place and my oppinion the attention should be stretched to the original burglary and not the officer who obviously thinks he is doing well to the shooting comunity.

[al4x]

Michael that actually makes a lot of sense, he was in a position where making money out of guns that had been destined for destruction wasn't really an easy way of making money, he was an FEO which means he's been pretty well vetted and no doubt he is just carrying the can to divert the flack from the police as a whole. Fingers crossed the judge sees sense

[Bazooka Joe]

UPDATE from LookNorth Website.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wear/8452065.stm

 

 

WELL WELL WELL....told you there was more than meets the eye

 

There again...they haven't done anything wrong...have they

 

 

Newcatle Crown Court Today.

 

 

Gun sale police admit misconduct The investigation was supervised by the IPCC Two Durham Pcs accused of selling guns which had been handed to police for safe disposal have pleaded guilty to misconduct in public office.

 

Maurice Allen and Damien Cobain were arrested when officers investigating a gun stolen from a farm were told it was bought from police.

 

Allen, 47, and Cobain, 41, admitted the charge at Newcastle Crown Court.

 

Allen faces further charges of theft in relation to firearms which remain outstanding, and did not enter pleas.

 

Judge David Hodson adjourned the case until 26 February.

 

The investigation began in February 2009 and was conducted by Durham Police's professional standards department under the supervision of the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC).

 

'Disciplinary procedures'

 

At the time, the two officers were arrested, questioned and suspended from the force.

 

Allen, of Houghton le Spring, has nearly 29 years' police service, while Cobain, of Sunderland, has been with the force for eight years.

 

A spokesman for Durham Police said: "With the two officers having opted to plead guilty to the misconduct charges we can now focus attention on the issue of disciplinary procedures.

 

"We intend to have this resolved in the near future and in the meantime they remain suspended from duty as they have been from the start of this investigation."

 

 

BJ.

Edited January 11, 2010 by Bazooka Joe

[Blackbart]

I heard a bit about this a few weeks ago

 

I also heard that a guilty plea would be forthcoming to save embarrasment as more than just members of the public had bought guns from these guys

[Vince Green]

Just a very sad story, they have lost everything.

Edited January 11, 2010 by Vince Green

[Bazooka Joe]

Just a very sad story,

 

Cannot see anything sad about it Vince, brought to book on it....both of them, useless I've picked it up wrong ?

 

There's a bit more than meets the eye here, theft chargers to follow apparently,

 

Allen faces further charges of theft in relation to firearms which remain outstanding,

 

Wonder what the outcome on this will be then

 

BJ.

[al4x]

Cannot see anything sad about it Vince, brought to book on it....both of them, useless I've picked it up wrong ?

 

There's a bit more than meets the eye here, theft chargers to follow apparently,

 

 

Wonder what the outcome on this will be then

 

BJ.

 

 

If you look back to the post by Michael in September it highlights what the most likely turn of events was. I know my force has been known to do the same if you know the right people. I shoot with someone who has been known to use cartridges sent in for destruction and why not as a legal SGC holder.

 

All these guns were sold to people on ticket so not blackmarket and not the obvious way to do it if it was for personal gain, However it seems that something thats gone on for a fair few years is against the rules and has come to light hence these being used most likely as scapegoats to get the issue out of the public eye, media reports don't sound good but knowing a bit more about the processes and licensing procedures it does make sense. sadly no doubt it'll lead to the destruction of more firearms both of historical interest and also perfectly useable firearms that could be used for sporting purposes

[RC45]

Just a very sad story, they have lost everything.

I bet all they made was pin money. They could possibly lose everything now.

 

I do feel sorry for them.

 

[Breastman]

If you look back to the post by Michael in September it highlights what the most likely turn of events was. I know my force has been known to do the same if you know the right people. I shoot with someone who has been known to use cartridges sent in for destruction and why not as a legal SGC holder.

 

All these guns were sold to people on ticket so not blackmarket and not the obvious way to do it if it was for personal gain, However it seems that something thats gone on for a fair few years is against the rules and has come to light hence these being used most likely as scapegoats to get the issue out of the public eye, media reports don't sound good but knowing a bit more about the processes and licensing procedures it does make sense. sadly no doubt it'll lead to the destruction of more firearms both of historical interest and also perfectly useable firearms that could be used for sporting purposes

 

 

Mark

[groach1234]

I know my force has been known to do the same if you know the right people. I shoot with someone who has been known to use cartridges sent in for destruction and why not as a legal SGC holder.

 

Ditto well not my force but ONe of my dads friends gets given cartridges (at no cost) for his son to use (who has a sgc) and i think this is good as he uses them for clays and vermin as at the age of his lad you miss a lot so it can get expensive but they get a real mix of things with huge 50g bbs and what not right down to small clay loads I think its fine as its getting a young boy into shooting so what is the point of destroying them

George

[Blackbart]

I would have thought all the cartridges and guns etc would have ended up at auction along with all the other stuff they seize off people !

 

seems daft if they destroy them.

[Vince Green]

They used to do that but it seems they don't do it any more. Maybe different forces have different policies. A lot of guns come from people who die and round here the Police come round to the house and take them but deliver the guns to a dealer on behalf of the family. the dealer then sells them for the family. We have had it happen with a couple of members who have died.

 

I can't imagine they are going to start destroying shotguns worth thousands of pounds, there would be an outcry from the families.

 

Very few legal guns are handed in "for destruction", unless its a worthless old gun. Most guns are too valuable.

Edited January 12, 2010 by Vince Green

[blunt shooter]

These officers appear to be scapegoats for Durham Police, I know for a fact that other officers who were as they call FEO's and also officers who were firearms policemen who bought or obtained guns in same type of circumstance BUT they have not been questioned???Why probably cos the police didnt realise it was commoin practice not just in Durham but other Forces to.They have started something they don't want to or cant finish and obviously want it to go away??

There should be more than these 2 cops involved and I know that from personal experience, but why not I ask??

These 2 have made mistakes but only did what has gone on for years everyone in Co Durham and other fdorces know that , I even know of serving senior officers who obtained guns off these 2 buty they are not involved.

It seems that noty only are thety to go to prison they will loose everything pensions etc.

I think they have been treated rather harshly for what was a well known common practice and Ithink the punish they are going to receive is too harsh for the crime.

If the police had looked at everyone in Durham who had guns I'm sure half the force would be in court with these 2 as would cops from elsewhere in the country.

Bazooka Joe seems toi have it in for pc Allen I wonder why has he got on the wrong side of this cop in the past?most probably!

The full truth will probably never come out as knowing the courts and the way they work these 2 will probably plead guilty to somethjing they havent done just to get a lighter sentence(who wouldnt?)and that way Durham can make it go away?

[Dunkield]

Interesting first post

[RC45]

Interesting first post

Strange!

[al4x]

Tallies a bit with the post on the last page, To be an FEO you have to be fairly squeaky clean, all this selling guns makes sensational headlines but they all went onto ticket and they have all been accounted for so there is nothing untoward there, maybe against the rules but assuming the money didn't go in his pocket there to my mind isn't a case there. Hopefully somewhere down the line sense will prevail but usually with the media involved and the word gun these things tend to take a while to set straight