Ferret Master Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) Right its on, I'm gonna fill up an old bottle of some sort with some of my cider and let you see that its taste of **** not **** Good lad. I need to see what state/condition my DJ of turbo cider made from bread yeast is in when I return home from holiday. It went clear so I racked it off and added a teaspoon of sugar. Secondary fermentation kicked in big time so I'm hoping that 6 weeks on it will be ready to rack off again! FM Edited August 3, 2009 by Ferret Master Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colchesterhomebrew Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 (edited) Hi everyone. This is my first post as a new member, but beer is a topic dear to my heart so here goes. I've been brewing my own beer on and off for over 20 years. When i first started, the only place you could usually get kits was from Boots. If you were really lucky, your town might have a specialist brew shop (my old home town of Widnes still has the one that was open when I lived there, and I left in 1987 !), but these were few and far between and tended to disappear through the 1990s, though a recent resurgance has taken place in the last couple of years. The majority of the liquid malt extract kits were made by just 4 main suppliers : Viking Foods, who made the Geordie Range, were the parent company of the Ovaltine brand and made all their kits at the factory alongside the Grand Union canal at Kings Langley British Dimalt, who made the John Bull kits and were based somewhere near Newark Edme who made their own kits and those for Boots own brand and were based at Mistley in North Essex and Muntons who made everything else from their massive site in Stowmarket in Suffolk All of these kits needed the addition of around 2lb of sugar to produce the alcohol and tended to be quite thin bodied and always had a residual sweetness from the unfermentable elements in household sugar. Furthermore, some of the yeast used was a little ropey and not necessarily the most appropriate strains to be used for brewing beer. (Breadmaking yeast is more suited to making bread than beer or cider ). The Geordie range was also notorious for using barley syrup rather than malt extract as it was much cheaper to manufacture (apparantly with barley syrup, the sugars are extracted by chemical means rather than by malting the barley and turning the carbohydrates into fermentable sugar and then mashing and sparging as you would in a traditional brewery) and this contributed to the "metallic" taste often occured with homebrewed beer. The other main problem with homebrewed beers, lagers and ciders is that the brewers have to be PATIENT and many homebrewers simply aren't.... Bottle it before its finished fermenting and if it doesn't explode in the bottle, it will taste yeasty becuase of the amount of sediment it throws. Leave it on the sediment too long before bottling or barrelling and it will start to clear and not condition properly so that it seems flat, Drink it before its completely settled out and it will taste grotty and probably give you the s..ts. However, if you follow the instructions, thoroughly clean EVERYTHING, bottle or barrel it at the correct time, prime the bottles or barrel with the right amount of sugar, leave it to clear and condition properly and then store it correctly, you can produce a very good, very enjoyable beer from a kit. If you want to see what sort of quality is available, why not visit your local homebrew shop and see if they have any tasters available - you may be very pleasantly surprised at what is on offer..... Its even easier these days to make good beer from kits as the main malsters (Muntons are the primary supplier to the trade these days, even continuing to make Geordie and Edme kits long after the original manufactures gave up and sold them the rights to use the name) use only pure malt extract instead of barley syrup and even produce "two can kits" that are "all malt" beers and no longer require the 2lbs of sugar so that you can easily get a fuller bodied, richer malty flavour from a kit that would only have been achievable in the past to those home brewers who were prepared to buy crushed malt and do the whole process themselves from scratch. To show how far the industry has come, Muntons have signed agreements with a couple of commercial breweries (Woodfordes of Norfolk and Milestons of Newark) to produce homebrew kits that recreated the recipes the breweries use in their own named beers such as Milestones Lions pride, IPA and Black Pearl Stout or Woodfordes Wherry, Norfolk Nog, Admirals reserve etc. It's also possible to buy malt extract, hops and roasted grains to produce beers to match commercial favourites such as Directors, Ruddles County, Fullers ESB, Old Peculier, Black Sheep etc with only a little bit of extra effort. I suppose the best way to look at it is to consider brewing your own beer to be a hobby rather than a way of quickly saving money. If you want consistent quality, easy to obtain, effortless beers, lager and cider, you can easily go to the beer isle of your local supermarket and buy it, but then you can just as easily go there to buy pigeon, venison and rabbit meat, but I very much doubt any of the members of this forum would do that in preference to obtaining their own !!!! Sorry if I've been a little long winded, but I have a bit of a vested interest in this as I actually own the shop that Markio mentioned in the first post on this topic If any of you want to think about making your own beer and would like to talk to me about it, pm me. cheers Andy Edited August 10, 2009 by Zapp Brannigan Please pass personal details via the personal message system only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danccooke Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Made my own apple press and made cider, left it ages (forgot about it at the folks place) 18months later, perfectly clear, about 7% from calculations we've made on start gravity and finish. Tastes of pure apples flat, gives one hell of a kick in the head. It is quite smooth if a touch dry. It is great mixed with Brandy. I will be making more this year as we have enough to last quite a while. it is hard work picking, mashing then crushing the apples, but it ends up being a bit of a family thing. Me and the brothers do the work, Dad laughs his **** off and offers useless advice, Mum drives Adam (one of the brothers) to hospital after being stung in the throat (major allergy sufferer getting stung in the neck is funny as ****) Is it better than strongbow? no (heathen i know but it is my staple diet) . Is it better than a proper cider? maybe. Is it mine? Hell yeah, do I like it? Yeah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJaxeman Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 I picked 6kg of wild plums and 2.5kg of blackberrys yesterday and they are now in the first process of wine making as in each of the fruits are mushed with the 4.5 litres of water and peptic enzyme awaiting the yeast to be added in another 24 hours. Then its the long wait before clearing bottling and even longer wait before drinking but well worth it 3kg of the plumbs were turned into jam (16 jars in all) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8landy Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 . it is hard work picking, mashing then crushing the apples, Speed things up a bit and take the strain out of the work by using a garden shredder to chop up the apples then an electric clothes spinner to spin out the juice I made 2 batches last year, first one I started fermenting straight away, and bottled at Christmas, this stuff is perfect now, nice and fizzy. Second lot was made from demijohns which where filled on the pressing but placed in large chest freezer. I simply lifted them out in the summer and placed in an air lock and left to defrost, then added some cider yeast. These are now bottled and I suspect will be ready at Christmas. My apple trees are nearly ready for another sessions collection. BUT remember never pick apples for cider, only wind falls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuck. Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 I always wanted to try making spirits but always thought it was illegal, found a homebrew shop the other day and had a long chat with them.. Gonna start brewin soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holly Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 I always wanted to try making spirits but always thought it was illegal, found a homebrew shop the other day and had a long chat with them.. Gonna start brewin soon Mmmmm the word smartstill comes to mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJaxeman Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Ive heard and read of these wasn't sure if it was a myth or not ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holly Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Ive heard and read of these wasn't sure if it was a myth or not ?? bought one saturday after sampling what comes out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuck. Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Mmmmm the word smartstill comes to mind Hmm it seems a sketchy area, I remember looking on the HMRC site a while back and coming to the conclusion that ownership of any kind of still is completely illegal, even if it's for just purifying water. Then the bloke at this homebrew shop I visited seemed to think it was legal to make 'some spirits as long as its not too strong' or something along those lines. It should be obvious which one to trust but then again HMRC also said that all manufacture of CIDER is illegal (didn't mention whether it's legal or not to brew for your own use), obviously it's illegal to sell, but they didn't even address it on the site... no doubt it hasn't been updated or clarified. I guess that's how they make money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colchesterhomebrew Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 "This post has been edited by Zapp Brannigan: Yesterday, 10:52 AM Reason for edit: Please pass personal details via the personal message system only " Sorry Re distilling spirits, the HMCR rules are that in the UK it is strictly illegal. The Smartstills are designed and sold in the UK purely on the understanding that they are intended for the production of distilled water only. If any purchaser chooses to use them for ANY other purpose, provided that the supplier has made it completely clear that it is illegal, then any responsibility for any other usage is down to the purchaser. In countries where it is legal to distill your own spirits, you would simply take a starting solution of 8kgs of sugar disolved in 25ltrs of water and allow it to ferment for 5 days to produce a flavourless alcoholic liquid at around 20% alcohol strength using a specialist high alochol tolerent yeast such as Alcotec 48 Turbo Super Yeast. (6kgs of sugar in 25ltrs will produce 14% alcohol in 48 hours, hence the name.) At the end of the fermentation and clearing period, this "base spirit" can be used as a base for alcoshots or liquours from the numerous essences that are available such as tia maria, absinthe, coconut rum etc In countries where it is legal to do so, the base spirit can be added to the Smartstill and distilled to produce 40% alcohol which is then added to the various "essences" to produce whiskey, gin, sambucca, rum etc. A cheaper alternative is to make your own distillation equipment via a Scandanavian system known as the "Amazing Still" where the "base spirit" is placed inside a 5ltr bucket which is then placed inside a 25ltr bucket that has a tight fitting lid. When the "base spirit" is heated to around 50-55° C it evaporates and then cools and condenses on the larger bucket lid before running down to the side walls to collect in the bottom. A specially designed, thermostatic heater, similar to, but much more powerful than, those used in tropical fish tanks and vivariums, is used to maintain the temperature of the mash at the appropriate level. Obviously, as stated, it is illegal to do this in the UK and as a result, all the appropriate heaters I stock in case any Scandanavians cant get them at home (or travellers heading to Scandanavia that feel the need to take a heater with them), are fitted with the continental style 2 pin plugs that only work in the UK if used with a shaver socket or apporpriate adaptor. Rgds Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Andy, Bloody nice to have you on board. Great posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 The base can be fined through a Harris Quikfine to render it 'starbright' and free from off tastes. There have been instances where folk have claimed that freezing the liquid to produce water ice crystals (which are quickly removed with a flour sieve) in order to make it stronger. (Tales of 'Applejack' spring to mind.) The best way, of course, is to use an alembic with a fractionating column of glass marbles and keeping the take off point at 78 degrees Celsius. The distillate, after any foreshots (early part of the run that turn distilled water milky) have been eliminated must be cooled with a water jacket or metal coil (worm) - but then I wouldn't know much about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markio Posted August 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Andy, Bloody nice to have you on board. Great posts. Andy, hopefully i'll come in to your shop for a chat sometime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshanks Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 hi markio,how you doing fella?just picked up on this thread and thought i would add my tuppence worth.A few years ago i thought i would have a go at wine making,after three attempts at making red wine i was about to give up as it was all jank ( i swear it could have been used as embalming fluid!!) but then someone suggested a kit from boots called Rich Red. Well i have to say it was lovely, a mate and i soon came to the conclusion that making it a gallon at a time was pointless so we made five G (bad move) We got 26 bottles out of it,the two of us drunk 6 bottles in one night,i was ill for three days and never made it again..... Whatever you decide to make the most important thing you will need is self control ATB Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markio Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Hi Al, All good thanks, sounds like your doing all right according to the Copfurn scores! All duly noted on the brewing front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colchesterhomebrew Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Andy, Bloody nice to have you on board. Great posts. Thanks The base can be fined through a Harris Quikfine to render it 'starbright' and free from off tastes. There have been instances where folk have claimed that freezing the liquid to produce water ice crystals (which are quickly removed with a flour sieve) in order to make it stronger. I get the feeling that you've done this before (in a different life on another continent where it is legal to do so, of course) !!! If I remember correctly, "The Amazing Still" system suggests using activated charcoal in with the base during the fermentation and the heating process to "capture" the nastier compounds, but you're right in that filtering it using the Harris filter systems would work a treat to clean and polish it. I have also heard the one about freezing, but I thought that worked by freezing the alcohol rather than the water because the alcohol crystalises first ?Haven't tried it myself so can't really comment... Markio, look forward to it, we're a bit of a ****** to find as the postal name of our industrial units is one thing, but the estate managers like to use a different, (they think) "posher" name that confuses everybody. There is a map on the website showing where we are, but if you have problems, just look for the big yellow gates opposite Rose of Colchester. We're open throughout the week and MOST weekends, unless my daughters are competing in a Highland Dance competition (This is why I started brewing again - there's only so much bagpipe music you can take at any one time, especially if its the same 5 tunes played over and over again so that everybody gets to dance the same dances....), but we always announce that on the website anyway to avoid customers making a wasted journey. (Only open 8.00-12.00 this Saturday) Thanks for the welcome everyone Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshanks Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Hi Al, All good thanks, sounds like your doing all right according to the Copfurn scores! All duly noted on the brewing front. yeah, things seem to be coming together recently. The last month or so i seem to have got the hang of most things crossing and this is making up the bulk of my scores.Still shooting just average on anything that requires a bit of thinking about ie. loopers, driven ect.How about yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbithunter2008 Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I've being making my own wine for the last 6 months some great wine being made and drunk. I just find it hard to leave it a year or more!!!!! Great stuff!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markio Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 yeah, things seem to be coming together recently. The last month or so i seem to have got the hang of most things crossing and this is making up the bulk of my scores.Still shooting just average on anything that requires a bit of thinking about ie. loopers, driven ect.How about yourself? Had a bad month that hopefully i've seen the back of. More relaxed gun mount/hold seems to have helped. Still got the bad habit of repeatedly shooting in the same place, even if it's a miss. If i can kick that i'll hopefully bring in some decent scores. Don't forget Dartford on the 31st Aug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshanks Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 sympathies to you mate, its a real ****** when you know you need to change something but your thought processes wont let you.Had a mare at fennes the other day, a particular stand ( too embarassed to say which one) fleeced me of 20 carts before i even chipped one!! just kept doing same thing time and again sounds good and i will defo be there, but whats happening on the 31st Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 "This post has been edited by Zapp Brannigan: Yesterday, 10:52 AM Reason for edit: Please pass personal details via the personal message system only " Sorry No probs at all. House rules and all that I too am very glad to have you onboard in my capacity as a burgeoning brewer (of beer, not sprirts.... .... long story) I'll hopefully be graduating from kits to all grain next month, so I will be picking your brains ZB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colchesterhomebrew Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 I'll hopefully be graduating from kits to all grain next month, so I will be picking your brains ZB Malted barley and hops work much better I've got all sorts of in the way of grains, hops, adjuncts and odd little bottles of peculiar sounding ingredient so it shouldn't be a problem. If you haven't already come across them, the two best introduction books on the subject are the old favourite "Brewing beers like those you buy" by Dave Line, originally published in the mid 1970s but still published today, and the more recent "Brew Your Own British Real Ale" by Graham Wheeler. Graham's is more in line with current beer styles and methods (and equipment) but Dave's is still worth a look provided you accept that he was working with only whatever was available during the 1970s and had to be a little "inventive" with some of his ingredients, materials and methods.... Graham's book also gives a pretty good introduction into brewing with Malt Extract rather than going down the "full grain" route which gives you more scope than brewing with kits but takes out most of the really technical bits relating to getting the fermentable sugars out of the malt in the first place. ME brewing is a sort of halfway house to ease you into full grain brewing as it allows you to recreate commercial recipes without undertaking the really vital bits of the process which are also the easiest to get wrong. I don't stock either of the books as both are availabe on Amazon for WELL below the RRP and less than i can get them from my wholesalers !!! A couple of more indepth books are "The Big Book of Brewing" by Dave Line and "How to Brew" by John Palmer. They detail the theory and chemistry behind the processes and are great for helping to cure insomnia. The original edition of John Palmers book is available as an online e-book on his website, but I can't find the link at the moment, must be on the home computer rather than this one. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col2 Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Worth it ? see " what to do if you get attacked by a badger " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 For the wine makers... you can break down the fruit cells by freezing and thawing 2 or 3 times before you start the fermentation. This will get out much more flavour without chemicals. I do a little wine making but love the simplicity of combinations of Vodka plus fruits or Gin plus fruits Sloe or damsons/plums are all very good indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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