daz2202 Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) Guys and girls. I have known a local businessman for approx 6 years and back in January I supplied him with £8k of materials on a 30 day credit agreement. throughout march I chased him for the money and was always promised 'I will be in tomoro with your money'. Mid April I had a rare argument with Wifey due to being skint which caused me to lose my rag, get in car and go to his house. Fortunatly for him he lives 30mins away so I was chilled out on arrival. We had a very long (2hr) pleasent chat and he agreed to get me paid asap and that he was having cash flow probs at the time. I was in agreement and I would help wherever possible. He owns 2 TOP of the range merc 4x4's and a TOP of the range merc convertable slk, lives in £600k house with pool and sauna. He also has and advertised to me a £25k rolex watch that he said he would sell if really pushed. I offered to take off his hands anything that i could sell to raise funds to assist clear his debt with me. I offered to take the 2 vans he has parked up on his drive now not being used and also the 2 silver pigeons that he also has. I took the whole thing to County court and won Judgement. The Judge honoured my interest claim and fees to the court. The debt is now at £9k. The 14 day judgment ended today and he has failed to pay or make an acceptable offer. As the debt is over £5k then I now have to take him to the high court to continue proccedings and this will be at my expense. I have been very patient with this man and really tried to assist but still get my money. This is someone that a few years ago I stood thinking ' one day I want to be succesfull like him and have what he has' The man and his wife still lord it up around the streets in there flash cars, being at the local cricket matches, eating in top restraunts and generally being seen where other business people go. Where do I go from here, as the court just dont seem to deal with things quick or forcefull enough and although this is not going to bankrupt me now (it nearly did) it does cause problems at home though from time to time. Any sensible assitance would really be appreciated. Darren Edited September 15, 2009 by daz2202 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonySmith Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 I would take some more advice, can you not take goods to the value of..? he obviously has assets that meet the amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz2202 Posted September 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 I would take some more advice, can you not take goods to the value of..? he obviously has assets that meet the amount. Advice is as the debt is over £5k then you cannot instruct baliffs without the high court permission. This is going to cost me more money that i just have not got! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bionicle Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 what about a debt recovery agency? i would have thought the court would have appointed one for the recovery of money owed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyr8 Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 you can sell the debt.don,t now if it,s strictly legal.they will persue the debt with any means they see fit to use.there interest rates are a lot higher than anything you could imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonD Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Serve a statuatory demand on the company for the payment (pretty cheap), if they fail to pay within 21 days then you can issue a winding up order which forces them into compulsory liquidation, normally a VERY effective way of getting them to pay if they are solvent and have assets. I'm not in this field but have a friend that runs a collections company, if you want contact details PM me. I have been in this situation before and i understand what you have done in trying to resolve the matter. Unfortunately some of these people try to extract the urine in not paying and won't pay until they fear serious action. Good luck! Jon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweedledee Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 think every business is having probs getting money in mate.people are holding on to the cash as long as they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz2202 Posted September 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 think every business is having probs getting money in mate.people are holding on to the cash as long as they can. But 9 months really is taking the yellow water out of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSA-airgunner Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 ask leeinVA he will have some sound advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveB916 Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 I think a couple of 'big' on commison collectors are required ? Or face them in their fancy restaurant and pursue them in their fancy cars ? Dave B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miniwizard Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 iwould follow him,when he goes to resturants and pubs,stick a knife just into his tires,all of them,this wont get your money back,but it will make you feel alot better,do it for the rest of your life,just dont get caught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ME Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 this **** boils my urine. keep hassling him as much as possible yourself and look to get some debt collectors on the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_R Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) It is a long time since I had to do anything like this, fortunately I seem to have mostly reliable clients who whilst they pay late they do always actually pay. Having said that there is one guy I have my eye on, but at least that's "just" a grand I am short. However, I was always told the guy who bangs the drum loudest is the one who is most likely to get paid. In other words, you are probably not the only one out there who is waiting for money from him. So, whatever course of action is suitable, get it done hard and fast, before anyone else gets their money and it all goes belly up leaving you with nothing. A winding up procedure does tend to focus the mind, but of course that'll only be relevant if this is a Ltd. Co. you are talking about. Seeing as you have a judgement already I think the next step might well be an enforcement order. There is a well known Liverpool based firm of solicitors that do a lot of this sort of work, called Thomas Higgins. Perhaps a call to them would give you some answers. Edited September 15, 2009 by john_r Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poorwullie Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Try and avoid the court option. Costly. You may win and he is deemed as having no funds you still get ****. Keep hassling, threaten with debt collector then call them in. Some may be able to collect commission from debtor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Serve a statuatory demand on the company for the payment (pretty cheap), if they fail to pay within 21 days then you can issue a winding up order which forces them into compulsory liquidation, normally a VERY effective way of getting them to pay if they are solvent and have assets. I'm sure that this is right, if he's defaulted on a CCJ judgement I think you can issue a winding up order as a matter of course and fairly cheaply. Nial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz2202 Posted September 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 I have come to the conclusion (and spoken to other local business people) that there is a reason that this man has all the toys and the big flash house. He plays the system, knows all the loop holes and preys on very small companies like me. A few of you have mentioned selling the debt. does anyone know what kind of percentage they would want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) This is a joker card subject for me. Okay, the starting point is the question: "Did you do business with him personally i.e. as a sole trader or in a firm (Partnership) or did you do business with his Limited Company". The next question is: "Precisely what is the identity of the entity that you have the County Court Judgment against?" Assuming that it's *him* (personally) then what I would do is as follows: 1. assume that all his toys and sparkly things are not his - I have lots of clients who rock up in Bentleys but it's *all* on the tick, HP, never never and in arrears 2. do a check at the land registry on his home address; do it here and do it now and email me the result. You are hoping to find that the house is in his name (best case), his and his wife's name in equal shares (as joint tenants) [next best case] and then you want to see that he bought the property say more than 5 years ago (and therefore has equity in it) and has only 1 mortgage. The worst case is that it's in his wife's name and or there's a whole load of charges and debt secured against the property, and thus no equity in it. Assuming the searches are positive then, I would go for a charging order. Interest accrues, you get secured and if he doesn't pay you can force a sale of the property after 6 months. However, this is all a long way off and subject to the results of the above questions and enquiries. 3. if his asset position is unknown or there is smoke and mirrors then the only thing you can do is make him bankrupt. Do not mess about with bailiffs and the like - absolute waste of time. The High Court sheriff is better, but, when they attend they will find out the cars are all leased and can't be seized, dito the vans or they are claimed to be tools of the trade and the rolex is fake. 4. if you want to know more about him, email me his name and address and his wife's name I'll run them at work and we can see if he owns any property or has any directorships etc. 5. What goods do you sell? You want to think about getting some properly enforceable "Retention of title clauses" into your Ts and Cs of business - it's all griefy because it means that your business dealings get more formal and paper based. If you're in a trade or a business where you do business with people you know, then this may not be workable. However, and this is the golden rule for the times that we are in - *do not extend credit to anyone beyond a level which can't afford not to be repaid*. You owe the bank £500 you are in trouble. You owe the bank £5 million, and the banks in trouble. The common trap is - you give £1k credit, bloke makes promises and asks for another £2k credit to trade out of position and repay you. It doesn't happen and now you are twice as deep in - and so it goes on..... Edited September 15, 2009 by Mungler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 I would ignore the "harrass him" suggestions and stick with those that keep you clearly within the Law. The "Statutory demand" is an option and take note of what Mungler is suggesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ME Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 As said in a bad debt post I put up once - PM his address to everyone on here and get them to sent him "presents" in a jiffy bag from their dogs It wont get you your money but imagine his face when thousands of jiffy bags containing dog doos turn up !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ME Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 I would ignore the "harrass him" suggestions and stick with those that keep you clearly within the Law. Asking him politely regularly for your money is not illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweedledee Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 As said in a bad debt post I put up once - PM his address to everyone on here and get them to sent him "presents" in a jiffy bag from their dogs It wont get you your money but imagine his face when thousands of jiffy bags containing dog doos turn up !! absolutely class mate. cheered me up to no end. thanks for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz2202 Posted September 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 LV, many thanks. I have just tried the land reg option but it cannot find his house. I will contact them tomorow as i think the problem maybe that there is no house number just a name. Will keep you posted. Darren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonD Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) I would go with Mungler here 110% Option 2 worked for me, and already had option 5 in place on another matter which was very very quickly resolved. Trust me, to truly defeat your enemy you just have to learn how they act and be 1 step in front. It's a bit like going after prey, they get used to alarm cries for so long then come the teeth and they surrender (normally to a ballistic tip lol). Edited to add, the analagy relates purely to vermin on the general license. Jon. Edited September 15, 2009 by JonD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 LV, many thanks. I have just tried the land reg option but it cannot find his house. I will contact them tomorow as i think the problem maybe that there is no house number just a name. Will keep you posted. Darren Darren you are most welcome. No seriously, any time; no really it didn't take me long to type out at all Yeah, many thanks LV, sound advice. You should open up an advice shop or something and start charging for that kind of stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ME Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) LV, many thanks. No probs Daz, good luck mate. Oh, and last time I mentioned the "jiffy bag bad debt solution" Lee in VA was concerned that his might get stuck with HM Customs & Excise. So if we go with the "JB" () option, I grant exception to our US cousins. Edited September 15, 2009 by LV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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