Lampwick Posted September 7, 2013 Report Share Posted September 7, 2013 Rob, now join BASC. . . . . . Not Tomorrow......now...... .. You never know when you need legal help...... And you may have been just cossed off a few Christmass card lists, so get covered. Would BASC provide a Solicitor to represent you in court? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted September 7, 2013 Report Share Posted September 7, 2013 Would BASC provide a Solicitor to represent you in court? I don't believe they provide legal cover - but i'm happy to be proved wrong. If they don't, it might well be a nice option to have for membership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixhills 69 Posted September 7, 2013 Report Share Posted September 7, 2013 BASC do not supply legal cover I was let down by them when I had an issue which was proven false in crown court I'm now with SACS at least you know you will have a fare case to put forward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted September 7, 2013 Report Share Posted September 7, 2013 BASC's first action would always to get the permission of the member to contact the police on their behalf to get all the information, and then try and mediate with the police. If a case goes to appeal we do not automatically fund the appeal but will always make our experts available to help if you or your solicitor want . Having said that, we are about to launch an optional extra legal expenses insurance policy for members to buy if they want to. Regardless of this new legal expenses policy option funds have always been available though an ex gratia payment decided upon by the Chief Executive in conjunction with a small panel of specialist assessors including a specialist lawyer and in most cases a specialist barrister too, who will look at the file and assess the evidence that is available. The cases is assessed in exactly the same way as it would be a legal expenses policy - the facts are assessed and based on the facts presented there has to be a clear case to appeal and a better then 50% chance of winning. I accept that in the past this system may not have worked each and every time, and if you felt let down sixhills I am truly sorry and wish I could have got involved to try and sort it out. But it has worked in the vast majority of cases and with the new insurance package, the service will get better and better. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted September 7, 2013 Report Share Posted September 7, 2013 I have to say that BASC did little for me when my rifles were removed,all they did was give me the number of an independent solicitor and then weren't a bit interested in doing anything else, SACS are looking favourite to get my money on renewal of my insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted September 7, 2013 Report Share Posted September 7, 2013 Having said that, we are about to launch an optional extra legal expenses insurance policy for members to buy if they want to. a better then 50% chance of winning. the new insurance package, the service will get better and better. David Extra ? Household insurance will cover you if there's a better than 50% chance. If people pay the extra? Not exactly ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted September 7, 2013 Report Share Posted September 7, 2013 (edited) Welsh 1 , under what circumstances were your rifles taken and who was the case officer from the BASC firearms team? I will gladly look into this for you. As I mentioned earlier, if anyone is not happy with the service from BASC let me know and I will do all I can to help. Kes, I think you misunderstand what I posted. We are about to launch a £100,000 legal expenses policy to cover a wide range of licencing issues for about £20. This is an optional extra to BASC membership, just like the dog or gun insurance options we offer for example. House polices will not typically cover firearms appeals, or fight cases where their is a refusal to grant, renew or vary a certificate, our optional policy will. Legal expenses polices will almost always be invalidated if, at the time of the initial assessment of the case, there is less than a 50% chance of winning. With the BASC policy, although this standard caveat will apply, because we have the funds available we may well still fund cases that on the face of it have a poor chance of winning, typically if this could set a precedent for example, like we did when we ran the case to allow a member to have a pistol for humane dispatch several years ago. David Edited September 7, 2013 by David BASC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted September 7, 2013 Report Share Posted September 7, 2013 David - thanks but an 'extra' policy costing 'extra', I suspect is not too attractive, since my household insurance will fund All and ANY of my legal costs PROVIDED there is a better than 50% chance of winning. There might always be caveats but I havent found them yet. The funding of precedent cases is obviously useful for the sport as a whole but that funding mechanism is rather more of a lottery surely. If BASC takes it up on such a basis, it will, by definition be unwinnable or are the assessments of likely percentage of winning for normal insurance i.e. BASC membership, 'unreliable'? Perhaps I have misunderstood what you posted, again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted September 7, 2013 Report Share Posted September 7, 2013 I have moved posts here concerning this subject, rather than derail another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted September 7, 2013 Report Share Posted September 7, 2013 You are fortunate if your home policy will cover appeals against refusal to grant vary or renew - if I were you I would get this in writing from them just to be very sure. All cases we review for funding under current self insured system are reviewed by a specialist lawyer as well as the BASC firearms team. The case for appeal in law can only be based on the bundle we receive. In cases where the member has broken the law, or broken the conditions of their licence, or clearly shown they are a danger or of intemperate habits its very unlikely funding will be considered. Higher profile cases such as those where a precedent could be set are also reviewed by a specialist barrister. There is no percentage limit , its simply a mater of review under law. Yes the law can be a bit of a lottery - for example take this case - a chap was revoked because he had in his position a rifle and ammunition that was not on his licence - what chance would you give him for a successful appeal? David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUSC Posted September 7, 2013 Report Share Posted September 7, 2013 Working for a broker I spend days (literally of time) writing about legal expenses cover amongst other bits. If you are at risk take you should consider taking it - as its one of the main areas where people can get seriously caught out. You can get standalone policies to top you up but make sure you know where one policy stops and another begins - if costs are set to spiral make sure your limit is sufficient for your requirements. I would talk to BASC's affiliate partner - but do be aware that there are plenty of brokers and even a few underwriters that would be glad to sort you out. IIRC triple barrelled cover is done by Amlin in conjunction with Hiscox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted September 7, 2013 Report Share Posted September 7, 2013 Welsh 1 , under what circumstances were your rifles taken and who was the case officer from the BASC firearms team? I will gladly look into this for you. As I mentioned earlier, if anyone is not happy with the service from BASC let me know and I will do all I can to help. Kes, I think you misunderstand what I posted. We are about to launch a £100,000 legal expenses policy to cover a wide range of licencing issues for about £20. This is an optional extra to BASC membership, just like the dog or gun insurance options we offer for example. House polices will not typically cover firearms appeals, or fight cases where their is a refusal to grant, renew or vary a certificate, our optional policy will. Legal expenses polices will almost always be invalidated if, at the time of the initial assessment of the case, there is less than a 50% chance of winning. With the BASC policy, although this standard caveat will apply, because we have the funds available we may well still fund cases that on the face of it have a poor chance of winning, typically if this could set a precedent for example, like we did when we ran the case to allow a member to have a pistol for humane dispatch several years ago. David My weapons were taken when a police sgt and pc sent a damning email from their force to my force stating that when they had been at an incident i was working on that i had been aggressive ,violent and out of control,it took 4 months to get my weapons back and this was with over 6.5 hours of interviews with my firearms dept and an official complaint to the other force from myself, funnily i was cleared of any wrongdoing a week after 3 out of my 4 complaints against the officers were upheld, all they got was a telling off. I was annoyed that no one was willing to help resolve it quicker ,this was despite me having recorded the full 3 hours of my interaction with these officers on a headcam,showing me being calm and doing my best to assist them,and they were shown to be obstructive and unreasonable. The police made the complaint as i went to their station to report them,but i was stonewalled and told there was no one i could speak to,the next day i was called by my force and while i should have been spending my time at my sons 18t birthday party i was instead assisting the police to remove all my weapons and ammunition. I honestly cannot remember who i spoke to at BASC but it was fairly short and while i was given the number of a good firearm solicitor no furthur help was offered even though i explained i had video evidence that i had done nothing wrong. The force who sent the email were so shocked that they sent their investigation team down on a sunday, their faces when they watched the video said it all,my health suffered through the stress but through it all i felt alone, i could not afford a solicitor that specialised in firearms and all other solicitors backed off when the police were mentioned. My force even let me go in and clean my weapons in their station even though their investigation was ongoing. I did renew with yourselves automatically(habit) but i won't on my next renewal,put simply when i needed help and support there was none. To this day i have never seen the email that was sent accusing me,i asked for a copy throughout the investigation but was told it was part of the investigation and i could not see it, at the end of the investigation i was still told i could not see it,so i still do not know exactly what i was accused off, i can only make assumptions from what was "slipped" out in conversations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted September 7, 2013 Report Share Posted September 7, 2013 Ahhh legal cost just closed a case (not firearm related) where legal costs where 65k! Had to sell a house to fund it! Won but since I was offered 75k in the first place and two years later settled on 120k including expenses it seems the lawyers get rich but I'm worse of than I was in the first place another vote for sacs but u know that already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted September 7, 2013 Report Share Posted September 7, 2013 I am sure Amlin are the LE suppliers to Hiscox I could not agree more about checking the wording of policies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin Posted September 7, 2013 Report Share Posted September 7, 2013 So my renewal with BASC will be Senior Citizen £56 and a proposed £20 for £100,000 legal insurance, a total of £76 with additional cover. Or SACS Senior Citizen £22 with £100,000 cover all in. If they can do it why cant BASC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedster Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 Because you get a fancy magazine with BACS and sod all with SACS. Hmmm, which is more value? I'm a SACS member too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 Of course, BASC also get involved with lots of political lobbying. Take the recent cases of simplifying licence forms and stopping this autumns fee rise for certificates as examples. We work with others to open up and secure shooting opportunities for members, we have an active role in giving shooting a voice in the general media , look at our media and PR responses to firearms incidents such as Cumbria, or the work we have done to get shooting sights unblocked from mobile devices, or the work we did to make sure anyone could buy shooting mags in newsagents. We have teams of experts to help people take up various sports within shooting...and so on. Just take a look at the Key Issues and News section of the BASC web site - if we were not delivering on that , who would be? But there will always be cheaper options, I realise that and of course they will be attractive to some and I am not here to knock them, there would be no point. But if you accept that there is much more that needs to be done to secure and promote shooting than offering an insurance policy for under £40 and you want to support the political and media worth that BASC delivers , like most shooters who are members of organisations do, then join the 131000 members of BASC! SACS have offered a LE policy for ages, and its evidently in demand, but we can offer it for less then the extra some are paying for another membership hence we are moving that way. At the moment its an optional policy, if in the future we role it out across all the membership as a standard part of the membership then the cost per member will fall significantly. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team tractor Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 I've been pretty gutted after finding out theirs no legal cover :( I was recently beaten up while sat in my van while the guys wife held my arm . I never laid one finger on him through fear of loosing my fac,sgc . He punched my face,neck and van which will cost £648 to repair . I rang the police who said although they believe me a prosecution will prob end up with me being arrested for a fray How when I'm innocent? The idiot blocked the cctv with his van but you can clearly see my bruises and van damage but basc informed me I might loose my guns if I prosecuted him but stands a chance just temporary but if I loose them through my wrong full arrest I could end up in crown court to get them back . The cost £3600 on average . Why am I insured ? The first time I rang basc was over fac conditions and ive never received a call back in 3 months :( The only person to contact me was David Basc on here . Cheers David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 If all you are worried about is legal cover, then join SACS. But, i havent seen anything about SACS on the news defender our sport. BASC are at the head of all of it trying to keep shooting against some tough opposition. The extra money with BASC is worth it for everything they do. Not to mention SACS is scottish, what if scotland become independant, why should they involve themselves in english affairs when they are the Scottish Association for Country Sports? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 Just maybe the issue of inclusive member insurance merits a serious look by BASC, especially when we are told its the insurance costs which make the annual membership quite so high. I have to say I'm not impressed with what I have heard but thats just MO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 If all you are worried about is legal cover, then join SACS. But, i havent seen anything about SACS on the news defender our sport. BASC are at the head of all of it trying to keep shooting against some tough opposition. The extra money with BASC is worth it for everything they do. Not to mention SACS is scottish, what if scotland become independant, why should they involve themselves in english affairs when they are the Scottish Association for Country Sports? Although I agree with you on the point of BASC being in the media defending shooting,the point is when you need them on a 1 to1 level they are extremely lacking,unless you have been in the position of having your weapons removed you will not understand the stress and frustration it causes,and when it is happening you need some serious legal advice as the police basically don't listen to you.BASC supplied sympathetic words and the number of a solicitor,but did little else to help even though I was totally innocent and had a video to prove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 Morning Welsh1 - I know your guns were removed, but was your certificate revoked? David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 (edited) Morning Welsh1 - I know your guns were removed, but was your certificate revoked? David No my certificate wasn't revoked,and I understand why my force had to investigate,but the length of time it took to get my weapons back was dissapointing and this seemed to hinge on the other force investigating their own officers,my case was very clear cut as I had a video of everything,but I was fighting blind as no one would actually tell me what the email said that had led to my weapons being removed.I initially spoke to BASC after trying repeatedly to get through and leaving messages but no one calling back,all I was offered as I said was a number of a solicitor. Later in the investigation I phoned again as they had told me I was cleared but could not release my weapons until their head cleared it,but she was firstly on holiday for 2 weeks and then on the sick for another 2 weeks,in this period I again contacted BASC and asked them for help and was told that as it was an ongoing investigation there was little they could do. Edited September 8, 2013 by welsh1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beanieboy Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 I am from N Ireland and have been discussing the BASC V SACS issue with quite a few of my fellow shooters recently. The concensus seems to be that SACS offers better overall cover for about half the annual subscription fee. Folk want good cover and value for money - hard to argue against the SACS package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mereside Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 im not going to bash anyone as i see benifits for all the different options but for insurance SACS is the one for me just had a variation issue and ian at SACS sorted it straight away i was appointed a solicitor and have spent the last year pushing forward till we ended up going to crown court in the end the night before i got the variation cleared this must have wasted alot of taxpayers money from my issuing policeforce and have spent such a long time going backwards and forwards with the police and it is so draining but had alot of help from the solicitor and got there in the end. for 35 pounds what value for money,atb wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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