Can someone explain the RFD to RFD please

[the crowman]

Hi all,I want to sell a gun and do it through the RFD system.I called the RFD who I want to use and he is saying I have to get the chap who is buying my gun to post his shotgun license so I can fill it in.

 

Is this correct,or as I see it a waist of time sending the gun this way.

 

Thanks

Mark

[CharlieT]

Your RFD is correct.

[Scully]

Charlie T is correct, but not many people do it that way. Sell it to your RFD for £25; he sends it to the RFD of the buyer and the buyer buys it off his RFD for £25.

[the crowman]

Well the 2 RFD I've asked do 😟😟

[postie]

I have purchased 3 guns on line 2 of this web site your rfd sends the gun to the buyer's rfd and does the paper work and sends it to fire arms office the receivers rfd does the same but fills his cert in and stamped fills In the bought from section on his cert .I all ways give the firearms a quick ring to confirm transaction just out of common curtacy.I would never send my licences to anyone scept FAO. if you are ring FAO first to ask if it's ok to do so.all I did was give my rfd the number of the sender's rfd because they need each other's rfd numbers .

Edited April 27, 2016 by postie

[welshwarrior]

The RFDs are correct that is the way it's meant to be done but many do it slightly differently.

[bluesj]

I have purchased 3 guns on line 2 of this web site your rfd sends the gun to the buyer's rfd and does the paper work and sends it to fire arms office the receivers rfd does the same but fills his cert in and stamped fills In the bought from section on his cert .I all ways give the firearms a quick ring to confirm transaction just out of common curtacy.I would never send my licences to anyone scept FAO. if you are ring FAO first to ask if it's ok to do so.all I did was give my rfd the number of the sender's rfd because they need each other's rfd numbers .

But thats not the way the rules say it should be done.

[rimfire4969]

I have sold and bought many guns through rfd to rfd, in fact I should be picking one up today. I have never needed someone's licence, if selling I take it to my gunshop who I pay some money to and they send it for me. When I collect today I will take my licence and the gunshop will add it to that when I pick it up and give him some money for the pleasure.

 

I know it's not they way it should be done but is so much easier, in fact I thought all rfd's done it this way.

[bruno22rf]

Way I have always done it ( too many times ) is - you agree a price for the gun including the sellers RFD fee - the sellers RFD then posts the gun to your nearest/designated RFD who then transfers the details onto your licence - your RFD usually charges for this service - there has never been a need to see the sellers licence.

[the crowman]

Apparently it's changed,that you in person has to fill in the buyers license

[welshwarrior]

Apparently it's changed,that you in person has to fill in the buyers license

It's not changed just some forces are enforcing the prescribed way of doing it and some allow the incorrect but accepted way.

[the crowman]

BASC and the 2 RFD have changed to this procedure

[rbrowning2]

Your RFD is correct, I was told it is now done this way due to the sales of goods law, warranty/fault claims or when you see the firearm you say you do not want it. If the local RFD puts it on your ticket as sold then it breaks who is legally responsible to pay for the problem to be sorted, you, the local RFD or the original seller be that another RFD or private person. This can be a new or secondhand gun.

 

Done the way your RFD has said the local RFD puts transferred on your ticket not sold.

 

As I say that was what I was told.

[CharlieT]

The police are now instructing RFD's to adhere to the rules, which are infact written on ones FAC.

 

See....http://basc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2014/08/REMOTE-FIREARMS-TRANSACTIONS2.pdf

 

Whilst many of us have in the past done it the "old" way, it is being tightened up and changing as RFD's one by one start complying.

[malkiserow]

Mr Crowman, does your buyer not want to send you his licence then?

[fitzy]

BASC and the gun traders association agree but in my case when queried, Merseyside Firearms Registry did not approve of me sending my certificate off in the post for a person unknown to complete. I lose all control of my certificate once it is no longer in my possession. Still doesn't stop the Police sending out certificates in the second class post though. Can't see how security is improved with this new method.

Edited April 28, 2016 by fitzy

[the crowman]

Mr Crowman, does your buyer not want to send you his licence then?

Yes not a problem but Merseyside say don't send it

[CharlieT]

Yes not a problem but Merseyside say don't send it

 

So basically, Merseyside are telling you to break the law.

[malkiserow]

 

So basically, Merseyside are telling you to break the law.

 

maybe just behind the times.....

[postie]

Ye there sending out Certs to the people there for not to complete strangers .wether it's second ,first

Or recorded all mail is treated the same.

[rimfire4969]

Just picked up my new gun from my rfd and asked the question about enforcing the rules. Their answer was basically they will be carrying on as normal and ignoring it until they have no choice.

[Scully]

I'm literally in the process of an RFD to RFD transfer. Neither the seller nor his RFD have asked to see my certificate.

I've just had a tot up and this will be at least the sixth gun I've bought via RFD to RFD transfer without sending my ticket to the seller. If a tightening of the rules is applied then fair enough; it simply means I wont be doing it again as I wont be sending my certificate to anyone.

I suppose the law is the law but I can't think of a more sensible, simple and secure way of transferring a gun than by RFD to RFD. Don't RFD's transfer guns to each other on a regular basis?

The simplest way is as I described, which may satisfy the law also. Namely, sell the gun to your RFD for an agreed amount; he enters it in his register and then sends it to another RFD who enters it in his register then sells it to another certificate holder for another agreed amount.

[Savhmr]

The law is very clear on this. RFD to RFD requires the seller to complete the section on the certificate of the buyer as if it was face to face. The face to face bit for the buyer is done with the RFD who receives the firearm or shotgun, registers it into their possession and has it transferred by the RFD the seller chooses to send it by registered firearms courier because you as a non RFD cannot legally do this. The selling RFD cannot legally hand over said firearm until he witnesses that the buyer's certificate has been completed in the normal manner by the seller. It really is that simple. Point is it offers complete traceability and for those poor souls paranoid about posting their FAC, it's equally as simple...scan it, make a copy and inform your firearms officer that you have sold the firearm in the normal way which means issuing the name and address of the person you sold it to plus their details and send it special delivery, recorded and guaranteed, insisting that it is returned the same way. It continues to be a process though that is flouted for the sake of convenience but it is now being clamped down on more widely.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Savhmr

[rimfire4969]

If it's not broken ...............................

 

Leave it the **** alone.

[Scully]

The law is very clear on this. RFD to RFD requires the seller to complete the section on the certificate of the buyer as if it was face to face. The face to face bit for the buyer is done with the RFD who receives the firearm or shotgun, registers it into their possession and has it transferred by the RFD the seller chooses to send it by registered firearms courier because you as a non RFD cannot legally do this. The selling RFD cannot legally hand over said firearm until he witnesses that the buyer's certificate has been completed in the normal manner by the seller. It really is that simple. Point is it offers complete traceability and for those poor souls paranoid about posting their FAC, it's equally as simple...scan it, make a copy and inform your firearms officer that you have sold the firearm in the normal way which means issuing the name and address of the person you sold it to plus their details and send it special delivery, recorded and guaranteed, insisting that it is returned the same way. It continues to be a process though that is flouted for the sake of convenience but it is now being clamped down on more widely.

 

But that isn't as simple as the method I've suggested, which is the norm.

The face to face bit is done when the seller 'sells' the gun to his RFD and it is subsequently entered into his register, at which point it ceases to be the property of the seller and becomes the property of the RFD, and also again after the receiving RFD has entered the gun into his register following which the buyer 'buys' the gun from his RFD like he would buy any other gun.

Which part of the law has been broken? Haven't both parties just completed a face to face transaction ( albeit with their RFD's) as is required by legislation? Legislation for which if you're a stickler means you shouldn't be scanning your certificate as it is Crown copyright.

Suggesting some poor souls are paranoid for not wanting to post their tickets has nothing to do with it. I'll use any leeway to my advantage as long as possible, which also includes not telling my licensing authority they are aiding and abetting me to break the law by not issuing me a S7 and not insisting I lodge expanding ammo with my RFD when they eventually get round to issue me a S7.

I like a simple life.