Guest Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) Wardens are allowed to search them if they believe they are using lead and there vehicles!If a warden asks to see your cartriges,license,shot birds and you refuse it is a breach of your permit conditions!! If you fail to comply with it then you lose your permit basically that is the wardens right to search so maybe u should brush up on your restrictions&conditions....condition7 answer no.2!...that also goes for natural england staff too! Dont think thats legally correct. So far as l know the warden does not have the powers of a constable and is unable to search etc. daft as it may be. I recall an incident at Elwick 30 years ago where the whole seawall was under suspicion till someone had a word with the **** responsible who then owned up to his misdemeanours...... if u read what I have posted up above dont know why its ended up there...it starts wardens are allowed... Edited October 23, 2016 by dawntredder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 Condition 7 answer no.2....in your rule for shooting lindisfarne! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 Wardens are not allowed to search unless permission is granted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) i read some time ago, but not sure if its true..... could you guys clarify? i think the police have a right to seize shot birds if a suspision of lead shot is used to be used as evidence there and then in car and on person. i think if the individual and suspect birds enter a residence, then the police need warrant or permision to enter. if individual enters a place of employment, and the police come a knocking, he must give up the birds. as its a law the police have powers to enforce it. if its a club thing its an internal club issue, but they could report him, but i cant see anyone getting convicted / prosecuted on the sayso of someone else without any clear evidence. as for lead shells being with you, is a club matter. non compliance probably would mean the individual would be delt with in a club way.... ie show them the door. Edited October 25, 2016 by cookoff013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 The one thing that slightly bugs me is, there are lots of nontoxic choices. The police know diddley about this. Because the police might have a susspicion the shot is lead, the shooter could have them confiscated or A shell confiscated. The police can take any shot birds if they believe a crime has been committed. As someone who reloads, i have little power in my statement of "i`m a reloader guv" it means very little. i`m not sure what would happen if any legal shooter is caught up in this. are you arrested? how are you processed? arrested on suspicion of using lead shot, everything confiscated then released after being processed, after the shells are tested and are steel would the case just be dropped? what would happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essox022 Posted October 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Realy weather or not the warden has the right to search someone is neither here nor there, I would quite happily be searched every time i visit if it deters these people from coming to the Lindisfarne reserve with lead shot. I see ducks shot with lead week in week out away from the reserve and this will continue to happen on game shoots and inland ponds around the country. The point of the post was to stop it happening on Lindisfarne, I run a trout fishery and do not search anyone if I suspected someone stealing fish yes i could call the police but I am in a position same as the warden up there to ban anyone I wish, all I wanted was for these 2 to see the error of there ways before being banned and causing bad press it has been discussed at our club and now any one caught with lead on a club shoot will receive a life ban so everyone now knows the score and can take appropriate action to sort it out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nic Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 I have not read he rules for lindesfarne, but would suspect that the right to search is a condition of entry or use, the same as music venues, clubs etc. If you don't allow yourself to be searched then your right of entry into club/onto marsh is withdrawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 (edited) Condition of entry you say? Bouncers on every access point on the marsh then? If someone were already on the marsh, in the music venue, club etc and if they refuse permission for a warden, bouncer etc to search their person....and they (try to) do so despite such a refusal!.......I reckon that constitutes assault? And as such illegal? In consequence I imagine the person would be within their lawful rights to defend themselves against such an assault? Or/and report such conduct to the police? Just posing the question folks! I am a Wildfowler and do not use lead shot on ducks and geese in accordance with the law, I totally condemn anyone that does......I post the above example just to point out the difficulties of policing the ban! Edited October 26, 2016 by panoma1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamch Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 the rules do indeed cover inspection of bags, birds, shells etc. by wardens etc. but may be easier said than done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 Taking birds and checking them is not foolproof as some birds carry shot from previous seasons or even days earlier shot over farmers fields under the skin this could be lead and not your doing. Unless caught with lead carts that have been recently fired and birds tested for that shot size and composition who can say who is responsible. Best way is no lead shot on the place full stop in cars or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 Best way is no lead shot on the place full stop in cars or anything. I agree 100%! But how do you enforce it? Idiots will always try to get away with breaking the rules. I think the way forward may be to have included in club rules, no lead shot cartridges on the marsh, and something to the tune of, anyone caught to be banned for life, and reported to BASC, and anyone reported for or suspected of carrying or using lead shot on the marsh must submit to an on the spot search by a duly authorised warden of their person and bag etc, refusal to comply will be seen as an admission of guilt! Don't know if it's legal? But we all need to comply with the lead shot ban in order to protect our sport, the lawbreakers are no friends of shooting and are giving ammo to our enemies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 Taking birds and checking them is not foolproof as some birds carry shot from previous seasons or even days earlier shot over farmers fields under the skin this could be lead and not your doing. Unless caught with lead carts that have been recently fired and birds tested for that shot size and composition who can say who is responsible. Best way is no lead shot on the place full stop in cars or anything. Now that would be a bit much. I often go pigeon shooting after a visit to the marsh. My cartridges are doing no harm in my truck. I agree 100%! But how do you enforce it? Idiots will always try to get away with breaking the rules. I think the way forward may be to have included in club rules, no lead shot cartridges on the marsh, and something to the tune of, anyone caught to be banned for life, and reported to BASC, and anyone reported for or suspected of carrying or using lead shot on the marsh must submit to an on the spot search by a duly authorised warden of their person and bag etc, refusal to comply will be seen as an admission of guilt! Don't know if it's legal? But we all need to comply with the lead shot ban in order to protect our sport, the lawbreakers are no friends of shooting and are giving ammo to our enemies! It really isn't (in general) coastal wildfowlers that we need to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 A very interesting read. Rules are rules and should be abided by at all times but I still ,to this day, do not understand why the wildfowling community allowed the powers that be to ban lead shot in England and Wales and yet it is allowed in Scotland. Looking at the numbers of geese in Scotland they seem to be thriving on lead sprayed all over the foreshore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 A very interesting read. Rules are rules and should be abided by at all times but I still ,to this day, do not understand why the wildfowling community allowed the powers that be to ban lead shot in England and Wales and yet it is allowed in Scotland. Looking at the numbers of geese in Scotland they seem to be thriving on lead sprayed all over the foreshore. lead cant be used on the foreshore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 Lead can only be used in Scotland over dry land; any permanent or semi permanent water and its non toxic and that includes shooting game, pigeons, et al. A very interesting read.Rules are rules and should be abided by at all times but I still ,to this day, do not understand why the wildfowling community allowed the powers that be to ban lead shot in England and Wales and yet it is allowed in Scotland.Looking at the numbers of geese in Scotland they seem to be thriving on lead sprayed all over the foreshore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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