bishop

This is with the 70 grains of 777 powder.i may do one more pattern test using 55 grains and once ounce of TSS with the full wad etc again-see of the lower powder charge draws it in (or out).Mind this is NOT TSS wt18 this is its poor cousin TSS wt 15. heavier than hevishot but lighter than the TSS 18 that is being bantered about on facebook pages

Pattern testing today with a few different loads.I decided to use the entire bio wad rather than cutting it back with the TSS . So---70 grains NOT the usual 60 used this time .Thick Over powder wad put on top of charge .I then placed a 20 bore hard packing wad inside the cup once the wad was manipulated and squeezed into the bore.A nice bit of saliva helped it in .Gently pushed down a few inches then tss (one ounce only) placed in barrels with overshot light card wad on top.Pattern was fairly good at 50 yards the first barrel and well--the pic below says it all.Quite happy if i can replicate this more often than not.I have noticed this gun shoots LOW .It did so on 5 different pattern sheets.Incredibly lifelike goose shape is goose sized BTW 30" circle.23 hits to the bird and of course a few more to wings bome/meat if i had drawn them on .Wads were blown god knows where -i found only 3 . i recon they flew sideways into the tide.Very chewed up wads opened right out like a pitbull got hold of them--but bore of gun is fine .I think the 70 grains is helping 10 grains more this time plus entire wad used not a cut down job.The gun shoots low--i know this now.on every pattern the base is heaviest in strikes due to the guns aim point being lower than would have imagined.I aimed(wind pushing me all over the place) at the base of the neck but at 50 yards in a strong wind i struggled to hold the gun true. Now this load IF i can do it as a constant will suffice.Its fiddly getting these fibre cups to fit the 13 bore barrels ,you have to bite em and squeeze em around very firmly but delicate like then rotate them into the muzzle.With no 20 bore hard wad inside the cup you would poke the bottom of the wad out if you tried to push it down.You need the hard wad in place ,then shove it down 6 inches or so then drop the shot,over powder card wad on top then ram it very firm but also quite gently watching out for the hydraulic pressure hiss when you are pushing it home.

http://www.namlhunt.com/mlshotguns4.html another page--this lad knows his stuff.

cheers, this is uncharted territory for me with the muzzle loader. http://www.namlhunt.com/mlshotguns5.html# Thsi is well worth a read ref muzle loading.Wad may well be battering into the shot instead of falling away correctly.

plastic solves the worry of these thick fibre beasts not opening up.im sure its due to them being cut down for the 1oz load to fit and the petals being too short and thick to open correctly .My only concern with plastic is the risk of them melting but a wad between them and the powder should sort that.Mind this is a muzzle loader so each flight i expect to let off a handful of rounds.And i bought this gun for quality of the shot not quantity of the bag. Stomping up 15 quid for TSS shot for half a dozen loads that will reach out and kill with good patterns and incredible energy is a bargain .Remember that with muzzle loading you have your two shots with your s/s and then you must stop everything you are doing and reload.Its important to drop birds cleanly if at all possible ,Its great to have shot that will be so efficient in the barrels regardless of the extra cost.Three steel to one TSS cost wise ? Maybe so, but for percussion shooting its worth it i assure you.Im out at 50 yards with these loads right now --patchy yes,but ill sort this.Im now able to relax,enjoy the dawn and pick my shots knowing that the bird im takings is going to come down with a lovely cloud of smoke and flame.Dropping the geese back on the 2nd was really outstanding.Close birds at 30 yards i grant you but worth 10 birds with a breech loader.By the time the pinks are in ill have a percussion load that drops birds like a sack of wheat at 45-50 yards if i wanted to. The boring part is making up all these pattern papers!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fibre is rubbed down to fit but slides in snug and comfortable.mind they have a 1/8 over powder wad under them also so no gas escaping.

Figgy its the lack of speed that turns me off steel for geese at range but also lack of pattern when you compensate by using the big stuff.Every place i look on the web guys are getting 25 yards or so with steel.Not promising really.You would need a pedersoli 10 bore percussion with 11/2 oz minimum to use the BBB and have the pattern density i reckon---but i will experiment tomorrow a bit.I have plenty BBB .2 shot and #1's in steel to play with.remember this is cylinder barrels here-zero choke.

60 grains of 777. 1/8 over powder wad./fibre cup wad,shortened /.mylar wrap cut to size,fitted into wad/.shot/ .overshot card wad.Im out tomorrow to do some more pattern testing this time with LBC Steel plastic wads cut shorter AND SANDED ROUND THE SIDES SO THEY FIT THE BORE with an ounce of TSS 15wt .The petals far more flexible on them.ill also try r these wads full length and slit half way and also slit 3/4 and slit right down with steel#2 at 40 yards and see how i fare.Ill use an over powder 1/8 wad on the charge of powder so as to avoid any risk of the wad melting onto the bore.(its 777 powder im using just now so that should not happen)Not too keen on the steel given the black powder (when i use i) will only push at 1200fps max .No idea what killing rage a 36g dose of BBB or #1 would have in steel using black powder.Again,if i managed 40 yards with pattern and penetration that would be fine by me.The TSS i expect far more from.50 yards should be workable with almost all the load in the 30" circle.

https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/scheda-accessorio.asp/l_en/idpr_468/pre_0/accessories-shooting-accessories-biodegradable-wad-cup-for-muzzle-loading-12-gauge-shotgun.html these may be an option.

aye that what most do when using plastic.They cut the cup away from the multi metal styled wad,use the cup and sit it down on top of an over powder wad.i keep thinking it over here--i only recovered one wd but given the state of it its bloody obvious the wad is tumbling like **** and the shot is being affected--even a slight amount of contortion would cause issues at a target distance of 50 yards !

Its 13g .wad choice is limited unless im able to sand the wads base first--i may well try this as i think the fibre jobs are questionable.A standard plaswad --with the base removed so just the cup remains has been tried by others with success.An over powder wad being vital to stop the black powder from melting the wad and causing residue /bore issues.Its why i opted for fibre.less hassles there but i may have to rethink and choose a multi metal wad maybe or just fold each petal on these fibre wads right over before loading into the muzzle so i know they will open evenly on ignition with no risk of them staying tight closed on 3 sides(as they did).They were cut almost to the base already btw.One final thought--given im cutting these wads short to accommodate the reduced payload,the petals are 50% shorter.Now that being so thats 50% less surface area to allow the air pressure to fold em back during expulsion .And on top of that, they are seriously thick it may be the case that there is simply not enough surface area on the petals combined with their very thick composition to fold all 4 down.In otherwords-ill fold em back 180 degrees myself prior to loading so i know that problems resolved

cookof013. i reloaded my first rounds more than 40 years ago.Im aware that petals fold back ! But thanks for your constructive and positive input once again. I thought the same myself Figgy.Tough little ******* these wads are as i said.I cut them to the base and the petals are still physically difficult to fold.My opinion is ,sounding parrot like,its the wad tubmling.One petal(please read cookoff) one petal folding back and no others is a clear sign that all is not well in the wad department.ill try folding them back prior to putting the wee 20g filler wad in and the cut to size mylar wrap(this fits lovely btw)

Thats another strong possibility continental..a drop in powder .Very powerful wallop these shots have--and thats with careful accurate by volume 60 grain charges of 777.Perhaps 55 grains would bring it tighter in.A 5 grain drop certainly would do little to limit the incredible stopping power.

thats what these are figgy m8.really tough wee suckers petals dont open evenly at all when fired.perhaps somehow they are making the shot pattern poorly over what could be achieved I was pondering if they are the issue given one recovered wad showed one petal folded right back but the other 3 still sat upright unmoved by the wads expulsion from the barell.

This is still 777 powder im using at present chris .The advised way to load is to drop back 15% from the black powder charge you are attempting to replicate.Normally a square load would be 70-75 grains of black. approx.Its time consuming,expensive but vital research to be done prior to using the gun when the geese are here in force.The #7 pellets go right through the 15mm osb board at 50 yard!!! No lack of power.Its only an OUNCE load m8 not 1 1/4.Remember also this shot was ranged using a ranefinder at 51 yards .Thats a bloody good range for a cylinder percussion gun--and i shall improve on it !!

Cylinder barrels .1 1/4 oz max payload. Using Black powder as i expect to be very soon i dont know if steel shot. in a size suitable for humane goose killing at 40 yards would perform too well at 1200fps max ,giving tight enough patterns----but in saying that Motty im going to pattern test a couple of 1 1/4 oz steel loads tomorrow in #1 and #2 to see what can and cannot be achieved.50 yards with the tss is outstanding--but in reality i wanted 10 yards more than the usual 30 yards advised killing range of these percussions.So i would be over the moon with tight hard hitting 40 yard steel loads.Being mindful of course that if #7 tss is slightly patchy at 50 yards i have no idea what to expect with #1 steel at 40 yards given the wads may well be the issue here with both TSS and any other hard metal shot i test.The wad to use here is the key.Steel or TSS will be an economic concern mostly.Its a 13 bore almost and finding a suitable plastic wad to slide into the muzzles without struggling may be something that takes time.These wads here look ok,but are very very thick bio wads ,so thick you can hardly fold a petal back even when they are slit to the base.They might as i say be the issue ,not opening evenly,if at all. 50 yards one ounce of TSS 15.0g/cc #7.i did use pattern paper but tried tis on the way back to the car as it resembled a goose sized target .I was off with the shot--think the gun shoots low .Might be better with 11/4 oz of tss.But more costly if so.The patch nature of the pattern concerns me.This shot is meant to hold tight up to 60 yards.Its being distorted by something and its not too much powder.60 grains of 777 is what you would use to replicate the velocity of black powder.You can if you choose use the same volume as black-its tells you this on the bottle,but of course nobody does as there is simply no need .The velocity is there. .................Boi wads here are very rigid.Need cut back for the 1oz payload .I found one wad with a petal folded back 180 dergees .Its very difficult to fold these wads petals down compared to plastic.

.I have patterned the 1oz TSS load through my 12 and at 50 yards its slightly patchy --but still a goose killer at that range for sure.60 grains of 777 and the #7 pellets are right through the piece of board.7 pellets in the 10 " bull i pencilled on the 30" circle.Some pellets stuck in groups here and there.I had to cut the bio wads down.Packing them with 20g wads as a cup filler does not work out.They are too rigid and will not pass into the muzzle as this gun is actually close to a 13 guage.I dont think its too much powder--far from it!.Could be the wads.I noticed one spent wad had just one of the petals folded right down 180 degrees .I think maybe the splits are too deep .maybe split only 1/2 way would work better.I dunno as yet.But at 30-50 yards they are going to be lethal goose killing loads and increase the lethal and humane range of this percussion pedersoli by another 20 yards .Good enough for flighting now--and thats exactly what i was wanting.Use bismuth if they be 30 yards or closer and the TSS if they are up there. The gaps in the pattern,the clumps of pellets--opinions most welcome on tjhis topic.Cookoff013 what do you reckon?Powder is reduced by the 15% they advise to simulate black but still packs a big wallop for sure.Got to be the wads i feel.Inside the base of the wad the shot column might be sat at angle due to the one or two 20g overshot card wads i do put in sitting at an angle over the rough bio wads interior base

heard of a few AYA 10 bores with bulged barrels due to people being--well--just plain stupid putting very large steel thru full chokes

interesting read this.I recall the statements from many here that 1/4 is enough etc etc for steel a few years back.I recall also taking a shot over water at 40 yards to finish a goose a few seasons back with a 3.5 gamebore #1 and being gobsmacked at how loose and wide the pattern was.I have pondered the geese in the past, at good ranges,that have taken 2 barrels when one should have sufficed when i had 1/2 and 1/4 chokes in the gun..But all being said and done,perhaps its time to try one or two experimental rounds with maybe a steel#2 and 3/4 choke in the yilditz.

The AYA is an old but very lovely and solid gun capable of handling steel in most peoples opinion,but not made for high speed steel loads.The choice to use steel is up to the individial.Certainly never put steel shot bigger than #1 or BB steel thru it ,regardless,even if its 1/2 choked .Some daft **** put BBB steel thru s/s older guns as they feel 1/2 choke will make that just fine ,and bulge the barrels rendering the gun useless.3" magnum terminology back in the days of lead is slightly different that modern 3" magnum relating to fast steel pressures .As i said the guns are solid but at the end of the day--- the risk,however small is yours to shoulder(pardon the pun).If ever in any doubt ask a qualified gunsmith,never rely on any forum for such serious advice.I do know the MODERN zabalas are steel proofed--i did consider one of them for myself.some going very cheap.

Your reply was i think relating to 18wt TSS .Slightly different animal.Like you mentioned on your American forum,massive differences in pressures amoung these non toxic choices from bismuth to steel ,powershot,hevishot,hw13 15 TSS 18 etc etc.Im sure collectively other information forthcoming will be equally useful

remember that despite the AYA being an outstanding gun they are not multichoked nor are they steel proofed to my knowledge thus if you were ever to fall foul and have some mishap your shooting insurance would be void.

I did type that its the 15wt TSS i am hoping to use.Its not quite as dense as the 18wt .219 #7 TSS 15g/cc pellets in a 28g load.Compared to the 295 #7 lead at 11g/cc. My apologies,perhaps its namesake causes confusion.Looking at this table its halfway down the road to the 18wt TSS from lead shot i suppose.As i mentioned i cannot see anyone trying to load TSS or hevishot using the same volumetric black powder measuring tools they would use for lead shot, unless they had an incredible limited grasp on reloading.Not something i d consider doing myself anyroads. P.S LEAD #2 pellet weighs about 4.37 grains or 283mg.A single TSS18 #9 weight is 75.4 mg bit more than a 3:1 ratio there.Actually 3.75:1, Very nearly a 4:1 ratio.Not really about the same weight at all .

I cannot see anyone loading TSS along the square load principle cookoff013.Im not following you when you say maybe the same shotcount per ounce???? I would have thought that black powder being relatively slow burning would be ideal for a dense material such as TSS wt15

Reading a fair bit from out in the states on their TSS websites as to the viability of this idea.No doubts it will tighten that pattern right in to superb ranges for a modern percussion 12 bore making 30 yards maximum range a totally redundant byeline ..But caution prevails here as it should.Not complete doubt but caution over what load of black powder could safely propel a 28g load of 15wt TSS to target.So long as the pressure did not climb crazy high its a good idea but how to glean this info and from where!!!!!!🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄