cowboy1403 Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 But if you have to be a BASC member to do this Proficiency scheme, it smacks of a monopoly. I think it should be part of the NRA Certificate of Competance as this is already in place. It would also allow shooters the option of going to Bisley and shoot with bigger calibres. There should be a sceme where all clubs, be it clays or targets, can register their coaches so this can be done efficiently. How about all the organisations getting together with this Certificate of Competancy and offering to take it to schools and train the kids, get them involved when they are young and for them to gain a certificate in the safe handling of firearms. If we educate the kids, they will educate their parents. Anyone else? i cant see this ever happening.schools will not allow it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 But if you have to be a BASC member to do this Proficiency scheme, it smacks of a monopoly. I think it should be part of the NRA Certificate of Competance as this is already in place. It would also allow shooters the option of going to Bisley and shoot with bigger calibres. There should be a sceme where all clubs, be it clays or targets, can register their coaches so this can be done efficiently. THis may be the best option with my Powerboat licence its run and administered by the RYA (you dont have to be a member) and it allows you to get an ICC(international certificate of something) it has different classes for example Inland and coastal waters, and power up to 10m power up 24m and sail up to 24m it could be similar with Smooth bore, Rifled small calibre (inc air?), rifled large calibre, Pistol etc and allow you to use those at certain ranges etc? Problem is cost the RYA National Powerboat Certificate (Level II) which i did costs £250 ish depending on where you do it. Thats a 2 day course but i cant see any course being less than a day. Unless its run by clubs and volunteers etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiemonsterandmerlin. Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 If we brought back national service it would kill two birds with one stone on firearms handling problems. As would show how to treat firearms with respect and also treat others with respect . And at the same time solvle a whole lot of social promblems but thats anothe threas all together. Regards OTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 But if you have to be a BASC member to do this Proficiency scheme, it smacks of a monopoly. I think it should be part of the NRA Certificate of Competance as this is already in place. It would also allow shooters the option of going to Bisley and shoot with bigger calibres. There should be a sceme where all clubs, be it clays or targets, can register their coaches so this can be done efficiently. How about all the organisations getting together with this Certificate of Competancy and offering to take it to schools and train the kids, get them involved when they are young and for them to gain a certificate in the safe handling of firearms. If we educate the kids, they will educate their parents. Anyone else? Please re-read Post 9 and note my "something like" and "perhaps". Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune82 Posted February 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Are you saying people who have passed their driving tests never have accidents then? They are certainly less likely to have an accident than if they hadnt taken lessons and sat a test in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 MC - I had a very similar induction. I was taken to shoot a full 2l water bottle from 10 yards and told that anything a gun was pointed at safety on or off could well have the same fate. It certainly impressed in me how important good safety is. I have to say though, i'm not too keen on the idea of a compulsary test. I think it would put many people off entering the sport and could well be used as a stepping stone by antis.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 I know there is a lot of controversy surrounding compulsory testing before getting a SGC but several events over the last few years have got me thinking. Basically I have come across several people shooting over the last couple of years who have all the gear but clearly no idea at all. One tried to shoot a plug of mud from the barrel of his 12 bore! Another fired the first barrel of his gun at a clay and then turned around to talk to those spectating whilst pointing the second barrel at everyones heads and chests! A third one took a semi auto from his car, walked to his peg (beaters day) and without doing anything ie loading the gun, fired 2 shots at a pheasant. At the end of the drive he then applied the safety catch and put the gun back in the car before recieving his marching orders from the keeper. Worrying thing is this guy had been shooting 40 odd years! I know BASC are against any more legislation etc but suerly with idiots like this able to get a SGC with no testing it could be a matter of life and death? Fortune, I thought it was bad form to take a semi on a proper shoot. I was talking to a guy over my way who does a lot of shooting and organises a few and he said if anyone turned up on one of his shoots with a semi they'd be told to **** off. But I have to say, there should be something so people are aware of the do's and don'ts of gun etiquette. As things stand at the mo, all the old bill seem to be concerned about is whether you have a record and how secure your locker is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris64 Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 How can you teach gun handling safely when you can just go on youtube and other site's and watch some of the ideots on there, it defeats the object when they see people walking around taking pot shots,shooting pigeon's then kicking it like a football these are surpost to be upstading people and it does nothing to justify gun ownership,dont get me wrong most of the video's are great made by responsible shootter's,i've shot for over 30yrs the first thing that puts me off taking someone with me is the first thing that come's out of their mouth is id love a gun to shoot thing's with,i just change the topic,i had a good teacher a gun is deadly you alway's treat one as it's loaded that has stayed with me alway's my kid's were told the same and to handle them safly at an early age even the girls,so yes there shud be some kind of training even having to join a clud for so long before you can apply for your sgc,it make's sence and take the sgc's of the ideot's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune82 Posted February 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 (edited) Fortune, I thought it was bad form to take a semi on a proper shoot. I was talking to a guy over my way who does a lot of shooting and organises a few and he said if anyone turned up on one of his shoots with a semi they'd be told to **** off. But I have to say, there should be something so people are aware of the do's and don'ts of gun etiquette. As things stand at the mo, all the old bill seem to be concerned about is whether you have a record and how secure your locker is. It is the first time Ive seen a semi auto on a driven day. It was beaters day and the guy was a friend of the keeper. It was truly spine chilling watching this cretan until he was told to **** off. One the first drive he held his gun with the butt on his shoe and his hand over the muzzle. Bolt closed and loaded. I was actually willing it to go off and save us all the danger of having him around us. Edited February 18, 2010 by fortune82 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 19, 2010 Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 You can't teach common sense. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune82 Posted February 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 +1 I agree but you can teach safety and gun handling skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFC Posted February 19, 2010 Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 I understand the point of taking a test but we have a really stringent driving test with theory and practice but there's still $%$(&&%'s on the road that put the fear of God up me. &%(*&+)+*+'s will always be so, unfortunately. They'll no soon have passed their test than they will start doing it their own way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune82 Posted February 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 I understand the point of taking a test but we have a really stringent driving test with theory and practice but there's still $%$(&&%'s on the road that put the fear of God up me. &%(*&+)+*+'s will always be so, unfortunately. They'll no soon have passed their test than they will start doing it their own way The point I was trying to make though was that I dont think these people were acting like this because they wanted to or out of badness, it was because of ignorance. They had never been shown or told what is a safe and proper way to act when handling a gun. At the moment anyone with a clean record can apply for a SGC and say they will go clay shooting at XYZ club and it will be granted. They may never have fired a shot in their life but they will be granted a SGC. At least a compulsory training course would educate people in the ways of gun handling. As for idiots behaving dangerously they should have their licences, SGC and driving revoked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 I had a lesson even before i got my SGC and another one when i got my gun but the idea that you can apply having never held a gun, get one go to local dealer buy a gun and 1000 carts and just fire them is potentially worrying. You dont need a liscence to buy a car....or petrol. I do think that by having a fairly long application process helps as it stop spur of the moment purchases. There is a good argument both for and against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garjo Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 Just got my SGC - I have had lessons, learnt a lot - taught me safety etc (excellent tutor - John Farley Herts/Essex). Does really surprise me that you can get SGC without any requirement to show basic safety awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 dont worry to much,guns in this country will be a thing of the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollydog Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 look at what it takes to get a driving licencse these days and people still drink drive/speed and commit other ofences cant see a shot gun test stoping idiots the only thing that will happen is the goverment will take plenty of money of us to get a ticket and test the only way to stop dangerous shots is to tell them and not invite them again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune82 Posted February 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 look at what it takes to get a driving licencse these days and people still drink drive/speed and commit other ofences cant see a shot gun test stoping idiots the only thing that will happen is the goverment will take plenty of money of us to get a ticket and test the only way to stop dangerous shots is to tell them and not invite them again "The only way to stop dangerous shots is to tell them" like during a training course in a safe environemnt. If you dont invite them again they will soon find somewhere else to shoot meaning more people put at risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 have all the tests you want, but it not stop idiots.means the goverment will be having more money out of us,its just common sence a test will stop nothing.dont wish for it you may get it, there are people looking in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 Hi, Rules are for guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools but only fools shoot. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcountryman Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 People get alot of training and testing before getting a licence to drive a car. That doesnt stop people driving like idiots. Who is going to pay for the training? Who is going to enforce safe gun handling after the course is complete? Will everyone be forced to go on the course, regardless of past experience?? I can't believe I am reading other shooters trying to add more regulations to shooting. Thanks guys. While we are at it, can someone suggest putting all airguns on FAC and banning their use for hunting? For reference, how many people are injured through shooting accidents due to poor handling/safety? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune82 Posted February 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 People get alot of training and testing before getting a licence to drive a car. That doesnt stop people driving like idiots. Who is going to pay for the training? Who is going to enforce safe gun handling after the course is complete? Will everyone be forced to go on the course, regardless of past experience?? I can't believe I am reading other shooters trying to add more regulations to shooting. Thanks guys. While we are at it, can someone suggest putting all airguns on FAC and banning their use for hunting? For reference, how many people are injured through shooting accidents due to poor handling/safety? How many people on the road actually drive like an idiot? A tiny percentage. As I said before the training would solve any safety problems associated with lack of knowledge. As for airguns on some for of licence I think that would actually be a good way forward. At the moment you can walk into a shop and buy a potentially lethal weapon no questions asked. At least with airguns on a licence it would make it easier to get rid of Chavs with airguns causing problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcountryman Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 How many people on the road actually drive like an idiot? A tiny percentage. As I said before the training would solve any safety problems associated with lack of knowledge. Would it? Paying for a course will not teach people common sense or mean they will follow what they have learnt. Other shooters/club members can provide training for people, but you do not need to force it on the individual who shoots alone or is already experienced. As for airguns on some for of licence I think that would actually be a good way forward. At the moment you can walk into a shop and buy a potentially lethal weapon no questions asked. So nobody is to be trusted anymore? 99.9 % of people buying one will not be shooting people with it. So we all suffer because current laws are not abided by? More restrictions do not mean the unlawful element will follow them anymore than they follow current laws or common sense. How about focusing on enforcing current laws and regulations, rather than imposing more, which will not be followed? At least with airguns on a licence it would make it easier to get rid of Chavs with airguns causing problems. How would that work then? Would all the chavs come forward and duly hand in their airguns?? Or would legitimate users just suffer more cost and deter young shots starting up. Creating more regulations and hoops to jump through does not solve problems. Enforcing current rules and punishing those who break them does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollydog Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 "The only way to stop dangerous shots is to tell them" like during a training course in a safe environemnt. If you dont invite them again they will soon find somewhere else to shoot meaning more people put at risk. you obviously did not read the post correctly! i.e. people who train to drive and pass a test still break the law so you still think it will make any differance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) How many people on the road actually drive like an idiot? A tiny percentage. As I said before the training would solve any safety problems associated with lack of knowledge. As for airguns on some for of licence I think that would actually be a good way forward. At the moment you can walk into a shop and buy a potentially lethal weapon no questions asked. At least with airguns on a licence it would make it easier to get rid of Chavs with airguns causing problems. You dont need a liscence to buy a car, truck, motor cycle, quad, etc etc etc or to use one, only to drive legally on the public highway. WE already have laws limiting the sale of razor blades, knifes etc but as far as a i know not chainsaws or anything else that when used irresponsibly and dangerously can kill (bleach, a screwdriver, a pen) not to mention all rivers, seas, bridges, railways, hills, slight inclines, trees, bees, horses, steps Just get rid of the chavs.......much easier But i do think that police forces should offer a basic firearms handling course to new applicants even if they ran it once a month for a minimal cost it would help some and put other minds at rest. Edited February 22, 2010 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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