had my 243

[joke209061]

If the officer thought you were illegaly in possesion of firearms an arrest would have been made.

If the officer had cause, or believed he had cause to doubt your identity and thus your ability to hold firearms, an arrest would have been made.

 

I do not understand why he did what he did, i may be overlooking something but he would have confirmed via PNC that you held a licence, and whether it was valid or not.

 

If most people are correct then you do not need to carry your licence with youat all times, and i believe this is correct.

FAC's are issued with 4 conditions

-the holder must, on receipt of this certificate sign it in ink with his usual signature

-the firearms and ammunition to which this certifcate relates must at all times, when not in actual use, be kept in a secure place with a view to preventing access to them by unauthorized persons.

-the holder of this certificate must inform at once the chief of police by whom it was granted of the theft or loss of any firearm to which this certificate relates.

-the holder must, without undue delay, inform the chief of police by whom this licence was granted, of anyt change in his/her permanent address.

 

This taken from basc website,

Firearm seizures undertaken by the police fall into four main categories:

1. The airgun, firearm or shot gun has been used or suspected of use in a criminal act. (Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984, Section 19)

2. The possession of the airgun, firearm or shot gun is not authorised by a shot gun or firearm certificate. (Firearms Act 1968, Section 47)

3. Warrant issued by a magistrate. (Firearms Act 1968, Section 46)

4. To prevent a breach of the peace. (Common Law)

 

which your situation doesnt fit into on what youve told us.

 

Id definately complain, via BASC, as they know and have absolute confidence in what they say. Id also complain to the police for what ever the basc advise.

im sure the officer thought he was doing the right thing,

lets face it, if in doubt the safest thing is to remove the danger.

Just he should have been able to establish your legal possesion,

 

good luck, looking forward to hearing the outcome.

[Salop Matt]

Any news Noel ?

[SimonT]

Sounds like a jobs worth copper to me......

Edited March 15, 2010 by SimonT

[joke209061]

Sounds like a jobs worth copper to me......

 

Cant be a jobsworth, he hasnt done his job properly.

[SimonT]

Be interesting to know the outcome, as I cant see on my license where is says I must always carry it.

 

Does that also mean if you dont have a driving license physically on your person.. they take your car dont think so

[rascal_2005]

any news at all?

[Mr_Logic]

ok.... The law is pretty clear on this. You must be able to prove that you are licensed for a particular firearm, not just that you have an FAC. The onus is on you to be able to do this, not the police officer to check. The Police are entitled to confiscate firearms until this has been done; this is in the Acts.

 

The PNC simply says FAC or not, the national firearms database has the details. Most coppers don't know if it exists or not so they don't know they can check it. Therefore, the officer in this case did his job correctly, and by the book.

 

Personally I think he should have taken the time to get HQ to check the database, and been more amicable, but there is no requirement to do this. We may not like it, but that's the law.

 

If you produce a photocopy then you are proving legal ownership in my eyes, so that would have been fine.

[hookbones]

are we to be reassured that the the expensive overstretched resource that is the armed response unit is cracking down hard on the public danger that is the defective rear light?

 

if this was just an ignorant traffic plod id understand the situation but NOT being pulled by these men... who on here has ever even been stopped by OS19 for something non firearms/public safety orientated ?? sorry noel but this stinks of statistic massaging ...

 

my old boss got pulled for speeding on his way back from a stalk north of the border in an aston DB7 wearing full camo with a 25-06 n trophy in the back. he told them his cert number n details then allowed a full search of his car.... in the boot was bag with the game sack in which was a 6" fixed blade , he was told was illegal in a car and as a result he spent a night in the cells and was charged <later dropped> ..this was your bog standard lead-headed motorway officer desperate to do him for something n didnt care what. my boss said at the roadside that the knife wasnt on his person and that it was there for the legitimate purpose of deer stalking..to which the cop said "that may be but your not stalking at the moment are you sir"

once basc got involved with their big stick it was all sorted but he got no apologies for this incident .. his dabs are still on record and he still feels has to explain the whole thing on fac renewal.

 

oh n as has been said CHECK YOUR GUN THOROUGHLY i have collected guns that have been seized as an RFD and the treatment they get in the laws hands is nothing short of shameful !! it there view if its in a placy bag it can be dropped stood on left wet ect ect

 

hope it straightens out for you fella, rgds steve

[MM]

hope this is not another WWII bunker thread

[bignoel]

right after speaking to my fao's boss he explained you are not required by law to carry your license with you but it would be handy to carry it or a copy . the PNC check tells the officer that i am a FAC holder and with out much effort he then can find out if the rifle is licensend he also may ask for I.D which he did drivers license produced but as the man in charge said the officer must of just been peed off for one thing or another to take the rifle . one swift phone call this morning and i received full apoligy for any inconveniance that may have caused me and go and collect my rifle with no license as they know i have one ,. the whole exercise was a waste of my time and public money as no offence was committed so there we have it a pointless exercise

[HDAV]

one swift phone call this morning and i received full apoligy for any inconveniance that may have caused me and go and collect my rifle with no license as they know i have one ,. the whole exercise was a waste of my time and public money as no offence was committed so there we have it a pointless exercise

Hmm seems sorted in the end but odd perhaps the officer is an anti and likes messing people about, its not like its put him out is it, how far do you have to go to get it back?

[gixer1]

ok.... The law is pretty clear on this. You must be able to prove that you are licensed for a particular firearm, not just that you have an FAC. The onus is on you to be able to do this, not the police officer to check. The Police are entitled to confiscate firearms until this has been done; this is in the Acts.

 

The PNC simply says FAC or not, the national firearms database has the details. Most coppers don't know if it exists or not so they don't know they can check it. Therefore, the officer in this case did his job correctly, and by the book.

 

Personally I think he should have taken the time to get HQ to check the database, and been more amicable, but there is no requirement to do this. We may not like it, but that's the law.

 

If you produce a photocopy then you are proving legal ownership in my eyes, so that would have been fine.

 

 

You wouldn't happen to wear a black uniform to your employment would you?

 

A photocopy would probably be dismissed by a cop in this situation as the guy was simply trying to be a PITA, we do have police officers that are guilty of this unfortunatly....

 

Glad you got the rifle back and remember to check for damage, if it's anything like the items I have recieved back - they will be damaged, and when you approach the desk to complain you will get "well, you can submit a claim but it probably won't get you anywhere"....

[al4x]

what a photocopy will do is give him all the details and gun numbers etc, realistically I tend to leave my license in the glove box, then its always there if needed or a short walk away at the least.

[joke209061]

Just saw your latest Noel.

 

Well, there you go, the officer didnt do as much as he could of.

Have you made a complaint, if you do so they will begin by attempting to 'locally resolve' the matter. This means that words are had with the officer but no real consequence.

This may sound pointless but hell know whats right and wrong and this will disseminate to colleagues of his, making the whole thing a learning experience for them.

 

Just a thought tho, glad you got an appology and your gun back, undamaged?!

Edited March 15, 2010 by joke209061

[shaun4860]

I hadnt thought of the calibre,

if you are not allowed to loan out a gun then the officer would not have been able to establish if this was the case.

But to issue aticket saying, 'no licence held', implies to me that this was not the case and the officer did what was possibly the right thing for the wrong reason.

 

Come on Noel, let us know whats going on!!!!!!!!

 

 

errrm.. he did 20 minutes ago....

 

shaun

 

 

darn just seen your edit...lol

Edited March 15, 2010 by shaun4860

[joke209061]

Yeah, just sent the reply, then saw his post and thought, 'better get that edited before i look a ****', too late obviously.

[Markio]

what a photocopy will do is give him all the details and gun numbers etc, realistically I tend to leave my license in the glove box, then its always there if needed or a short walk away at the least.

 

I have wondered if i should leave a photocopy in the glove box day to day , but i'm not sure what the implications are if your car got nicked (in teh event of day to day use and without guns in the car).

[joke209061]

I have wondered if i should leave a photocopy in the glove box day to day , but i'm not sure what the implications are if your car got nicked (in teh event of day to day use and without guns in the car).

 

I always take my SGC when shooting, just in case. I wouldnt leave a photocopy in my car for that very reason. Cant be any harm in putting one in your slip though.

[bignoel]

i had to travel 14 miles to the police station to collect my rifle back i deeply thought about a complaint and exspence's .but to be honest i have my rifle back and no black mark so i will just live with it i guess dont want to be rubbing the boys in blue up the wrong way now .

[bi9johnny]

have had my sgc and fac for 25+ years and was always led to believe it was against the rules to have any gun certs photocopied for some reason.... if you use it as id for abbey/santander they try to photo but i always stop them for that reason

i may be wrong of course

[night owl]

this stuff always makes me wonder .did you ask for id did you phone the police station to conferm id or did you just hand over your gun to some one you have never met before ?

HOW HARD WOULD IT BE TO PRETEND YOU ARE A POLICE OFFICER OR HAVE I BEEN WATCHING TO MUCH OF THE REAL HUSTLE .LOL

[bignoel]

armed responce unit pretty hard to try and copy them boys

[Alanl50]

I always carry my BASC insurance with me in the car and a copy of my SGC you know the ugly mug part lol, it sits in my glove box and in my front window of my car I place a laminated message saying " pest control for - and the name of my farmer" the way I see it that they have my registration of my car and know who the farmer is, so hopefully all is ok.

Alan

Edited March 15, 2010 by Alanl50

[hogey]

DavidBasc coments that if you do not have your certificate with you and you are stopped by the police then you run the risk of having your guns confiscated until can prove you have legal right to have them.

I guess it pays to carry it or at least a copy.

[Boromir]

Dont see why people having a go at the police for doing the job. If you have done nothing wrong why worry about it.