shotgun laws bound to be tightend because of 1 man

[reddan]

between 8-12% of the UK population suffer from some form od depression in any one year. The kind of mental state seen in this case would not be identifiable from past depression or other medical information and has been said so many times 'it is impossible to legislate to avoid instances like this.'

 

 

I completely agree with what you say and it wouldnt have prevented in this instance but may be a sensible thing to do.

 

Dan

[Vince Green]

indeed brown would have banned the lot.

 

Although wasnt it the tories who banned handguns?

No it wasn't the Tories who banned handguns it was labour. more precisely it was Tony Blair. After the Dumblane shooting John Major at first said they would wait for the results of the enquiry. Then the antis and labour set up such a storm of protest that he was forced to say they would ban centrefire handguns but would keep the .22 target pistols because they were a different case.

Tony Blair then went on TV and said if they get elected they would ban all handguns. After the election thats what they did but they also banned expanding ammunition and mail order sales of guns and ammunition. It appears this was done purely out of spite.

 

Loads of clubs collapsed that could have carried on as .22 only, and so did many gunshops. Dealers I knew lost their businesses and their homes. The banning of mail order caused untold damage to the gun trade because for many dealers it was an important part of their business. but it also affected shooters in rural areas who now have to drive miles to buy ammunition but they still do buy it so it didn't prevent anyone actually getting ammunition it just causes a lot of un necessary inconvenience and expense.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Vince Green

[jasper3]

Dan..I do agree with you....

its just situations like what has happened will cause us all to have different views and outlooks

 

personaly I don't want any change..i enjoy the fact that after a hard days work, i can go home get my shotgun and make my way to my permission and have a bit of shooting....

 

But !!!!

It took one man to get semi automatics banned

it took one man to get hand pistols banned

 

if !!!!! we need to make some changes to keep our sport , then i would rather make small changes than change the whole routine as it is now

[reddan]

Dan..I do agree with you....

its just situations like what has happened will cause us all to have different views and outlooks

 

personaly I don't want any change..i enjoy the fact that after a hard days work, i can go home get my shotgun and make my way to my permission and have a bit of shooting....

 

But !!!!

It took one man to get semi automatics banned

it took one man to get hand pistols banned

 

if !!!!! we need to make some changes to keep our sport , then i would rather make small changes than change the whole routine as it is now

 

I know exactly where you are coming from and I agree I would rather have smaller measures that large. They still wouldn't work but know where you are coming from.

 

Dan

[RossEM]

BBC interview...David Cameron said "there will be no knee-jerk reaction...you cannot legislate against a switch going off in someone's head"

Naive maybe, but I trust that.

[reddan]

BBC interview...David Cameron said "there will be no knee-jerk reaction...you cannot legislate against a switch going off in someone's head"

Naive maybe, but I trust that.

 

I have to say I was impressed.

 

Dan

[Beardo]

it sure beats Blair's "They have done enormous carnage often to wholly innocent civilians, including children. The sooner Britain gets a lead in this, the better. It's the right and civilized things to do."

[HDAV]

BBC interview...David Cameron said "there will be no knee-jerk reaction...you cannot legislate against a switch going off in someone's head"

Naive maybe, but I trust that.

Me too I was also impressed with the comment that we already have the tightest laws in europe

[Vipa]

And what important jobs do YOU and the vast majority of shooters do with your "tools"? I think you'll find the overwhelming majority of people shoot purely for fun, not because it is an essential job that needs doing, not because they're competing at national/international level, for no other reason that it is fun for them to shoot. Yes thats right i'm not afraid to admit i get a kick out of shooting :o I'm sorry if this sounds like i'm having a go but this frankly 'anti' view point of certain types of firearms is what destroyed a co-ordinated defence of handgun shooting 13 years ago. :o

 

Apart from it just being FUN (theres that dirty word again) shooting as many different types of guns as possible, there were informal, club, county, national and international competitions held specifically using self-loading full-bore rifles and handguns. Just look at the IPSC website for what people in this country used to do, and what hundreds of thousands of people still do all around the world.

 

You might not like or have any knowledge of handgun/self-loading rifles but please don't try to deride someone that does.

 

Mark

 

Ok... without getting into a debate here, if my sums are correct you were 9 when assault rifles/semi autos were banned and 18 when the handgun ban came in. Whilst I accept you may well have been in the forces and also may have lived abroad please don't get all 'boys toys' and try to tell us that you have experience of sporting use of these 'useful tools' in the UK, especially semi auto rifles!

 

I, with heavy heart, had to hand in my Beretta 92 in 1997 and ended up binning the vast majority of my reloading gear. Yes I have knowledge and experience of handguns in a sporting environment and military hardware in the Army.

 

My observation wasn't aming to deride you but please be realistic... Rifles are useful tools.... for deer management and pest control. Shotguns are useful tools for crop protection and vermin control.... The only time an assault rifle or handgun (with a few VERY isolated exceptions such as humane dispatch for which you can still get a handgun slot on your ticket) become a 'useful tool' is in the hands of the police or armed forces.

 

By all means sing from the rooftops your love of guns and everything that goes with them... I personally love shooting and everything gun and militaria related.... there's nothing to be ashamed of and whilst I really, really miss my pistol shooting and would love to think that one day we could get that back, at the same time I am happy and content that, in the real world that we live in, these types of weapon have no place in private hands.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Vipa

[digger]

None of the panel on question time backed any form of ownership restriction, they all agreed no knee jerk reaction was required. You cant legislate for what happened.

[Vipa]

None of the panel on question time backed any form of ownership restriction, they all agreed no knee jerk reaction was required. You cant legislate for what happened.

 

Very good to hear... let's hope that the government listen to the voice of reason rather than the voice of Sky & the BBC!!

[Imperfection]

Very good to hear... let's hope that the government listen to the voice of reason rather than the voice of Sky & the BBC!!

 

Considering Sky is/was part of the Rupert Murdoch empire along with the sizzling Sun-its envitable they were going to exagerate and inflame the situation.

[Billy.]

as it's been mentioned, if they do ban semi auto shotguns and 22lrs, how would they go about compensating the owners of such guns?

 

Lets be serious. What's the difference between a semi auto that can only hold 2 shots and a O/U shotgun??

 

If they ban S/A shotguns, they'll have to ban all shotguns. It's far easier to restrict the magazine on a S/A.

 

As for .22LR banning; that's ridiculous. It'd be like saying "the .22LR is more dangerous than a .22-250"

 

You might find that S/A rimfire rifles get banned though...

[Mr_Logic]

Ok... without getting into a debate here, if my sums are correct you were 9 when assault rifles/semi autos were banned and 18 when the handgun ban came in. Whilst I accept you may well have been in the forces and also may have lived abroad please don't get all 'boys toys' and try to tell us that you have experience of sporting use of these 'useful tools' in the UK, especially semi auto rifles!

 

I, with heavy heart, had to hand in my Beretta 92 in 1997 and ended up binning the vast majority of my reloading gear. Yes I have knowledge and experience of handguns in a sporting environment and military hardware in the Army.

 

My observation wasn't aming to deride you but please be realistic... Rifles are useful tools.... for deer management and pest control. Shotguns are useful tools for crop protection and vermin control.... The only time an assault rifle or handgun (with a few VERY isolated exceptions such as humane dispatch for which you can still get a handgun slot on your ticket) become a 'useful tool' is in the hands of the police or armed forces.

 

By all means sing from the rooftops your love of guns and everything that goes with them... I personally love shooting and everything gun and militaria related.... there's nothing to be ashamed of and whilst I really, really miss my pistol shooting and would love to think that one day we could get that back, at the same time I am happy and content that, in the real world that we live in, these types of weapon have no place in private hands.

223 semi automatic rifle is very useful indeed - there is no more humane foxing tool. While most shots are a single-shot affair, everyone has a duff shot from time to time - a semi auto 223 means the follow up is instant, like a follow up with a rabbit with a semi auto .22. Much better - if I could have one I would.

 

Regarding pistols, they are certainly for target shooting in the majority of cases. But, if the laws weren't so tight - they are also useful for a despatch in the field - wounded fox or deer. Absolutely essential? Not for most of us. But they most certainly DO have their uses. Most people are responsible and use these tools properly. As the repeated massacres show, banning certain guns is never the answer.

[Bombadil]

Ok... without getting into a debate here, if my sums are correct you were 9 when assault rifles/semi autos were banned and 18 when the handgun ban came in. Whilst I accept you may well have been in the forces and also may have lived abroad please don't get all 'boys toys' and try to tell us that you have experience of sporting use of these 'useful tools' in the UK, especially semi auto rifles!

 

I, with heavy heart, had to hand in my Beretta 92 in 1997 and ended up binning the vast majority of my reloading gear. Yes I have knowledge and experience of handguns in a sporting environment and military hardware in the Army.

 

My observation wasn't aming to deride you but please be realistic... Rifles are useful tools.... for deer management and pest control. Shotguns are useful tools for crop protection and vermin control.... The only time an assault rifle or handgun (with a few VERY isolated exceptions such as humane dispatch for which you can still get a handgun slot on your ticket) become a 'useful tool' is in the hands of the police or armed forces.

 

By all means sing from the rooftops your love of guns and everything that goes with them... I personally love shooting and everything gun and militaria related.... there's nothing to be ashamed of and whilst I really, really miss my pistol shooting and would love to think that one day we could get that back, at the same time I am happy and content that, in the real world that we live in, these types of weapon have no place in private hands.

 

I understand your argument but disagree with you. You say at the end how sad you are that you lost your pistol, and that you enjoyed target shooting. Then you go on to say they have no place in private hands - yes they do, target shooting and collections. I assume you think along the same lines as me - if banning pistols stops these massacres from occuring then it's a hobbie that will have to be given up. But gun crime persists, as do terrible events such as yesterdays.

[HDAV]

What i don't understand is why the public at large think banning things works...(in preventing such random incidents*) We went to WAR with China to protect our Opium supplies in the mid 19th century, has banning opium reduced drug use? Banning Semi autos and hand guns hasn't reduced the overall gun crime levels. I can only hope that that this tragedy is seen as it happened, a tragedy and the act of a single individual. It is a terrible terrible thing that has happened and my deepest sympathy go to the victims and their families, what his reasons they aren't justified.

 

I do find some of things i read on the internet very worrying, and i hope that everyone involved in shooting will stand up and be counted in condemnation of the events of Hungerford, Dunblane and now Cumbria.

 

Recently there was court case where a boy was shot in the head with an illegally held handgun while posing for a photo! With owner of the illegally held gun was the step father of the boy, a firearms aficionado and collector...http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east_wales/10153542.stm

[Dr_Scholl]

I understand your argument but disagree with you. You say at the end how sad you are that you lost your pistol, and that you enjoyed target shooting. Then you go on to say they have no place in private hands - yes they do, target shooting and collections. I assume you think along the same lines as me - if banning pistols stops these massacres from occuring then it's a hobbie that will have to be given up. But gun crime persists, as do terrible events such as yesterdays.

 

Semi-auto rifles have plenty of sporting uses and deserve to be in private hands. Here in the U.S, the AR-15 is the most popular rifle in the country, especially now that Obama's in office. According to ATF stats, 22% of all rifles sold in 2008 in the U.S were AR pattern rifles. It's the most popular gun in medium to long range competitive shooting and has gotten hugely popular in the hunting community as well. I own 2 of them and they're great for foxes and the occasional coyote. But usually I just use them for target shooting. If there's one thing shooters the world over should know by now, it's that hanging a particular group of gun owners out to dry won't appease the anti's, it'll just embolden them.

[gentlemanthug]

It's a very sad day for the victims and the community. However, I bet the anti shooting lobby think all their birthdays have come at once.

[Ferret Master]

hanging a particular group of gun owners out to dry won't appease the anti's, it'll just embolden them.

Never has a truer word been spoken.

 

In no way can the shooting lobby pander to the antis in the light of these awful events as it will only weaken what we have left.

 

FM

[Brad93]

Just seen this interview on channel four. I found myself swearing loudly at the TV!

 

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player...tid=89770035001

[Kent Militia]

Very tragic interview, however this is pandering to an emotional response of: All shooting is bad and the guy crying is supposed to scare us and make us feel guilty that we shoot. I for one will not do that, I am a proud shooter!

[FireDrake]

And what important jobs do YOU and the vast majority of shooters do with your "tools"? I think you'll find the overwhelming majority of people shoot purely for fun, not because it is an essential job that needs doing, not because they're competing at national/international level, for no other reason that it is fun for them to shoot. Yes thats right i'm not afraid to admit i get a kick out of shooting :o I'm sorry if this sounds like i'm having a go but this frankly 'anti' view point of certain types of firearms is what destroyed a co-ordinated defence of handgun shooting 13 years ago. :o

 

Apart from it just being FUN (theres that dirty word again) shooting as many different types of guns as possible, there were informal, club, county, national and international competitions held specifically using self-loading full-bore rifles and handguns. Just look at the IPSC website for what people in this country used to do, and what hundreds of thousands of people still do all around the world.

 

You might not like or have any knowledge of handgun/self-loading rifles but please don't try to deride someone that does.

 

Mark

I too do it for fun/leisure sport only with an air rifle at the moment, have been thinking about getting my SGC because the farm where we have our horses has lots of pidgeons etc. Now i have only a limited experience in shotguns and i am taking lessons from a friend who has had his shotguns for 20+ years, as i think is the most sensible thing to do to learn all aspects of shooting and safety.

 

My thoughts are with all involved with the tragedy in Cumbria.

[Christopher Graffius]

As we start Day 3 my feeling is that, given the awful circumstances, we're about where we want to be. But that doesn't mean that BASC is complacent. This is going to run for some time.

 

There is political consensus that there shouldn't be a knee jerk reaction (we're in touch with both government and opposition) there's agreement to wait until inquiries are complete. That will allow emotions to die down and hopefully sense prevail. The press have done licensing and gun laws to death and will move on so long as we don't feed their speculation. The next stage - I suspect - will be press debates between gun control campaigners and ourselves - and I believe we can win these. The key work now is to develop what we want the government to do. They will not want to damage a recreation that puts £1.6 billion into the rural economy each year. Cameron's comments on not being able to legislate for a lunatic are significant. Obviously if the law was less bureaucratic then the police would have more time to spot a bad 'un than chasing paper as they do now. This may be an opportunity for very sensible reform.

 

The antis were caught on the hop and they didn't start getting on the media until the afternoon of Day 2, by then the line that there should be no rush to action was secure and they couldn't shake it.

 

We should be careful about speculating on how the law may change - don't want to give our opposition ammunition.

 

I can't tell you how glad I've been to have the resources of the new Communications centre to deploy, it ensured that the systems and plans we had in place for this sort of incident ran smoothly. It's extraordinary to think that we only moved into it two months ago. Somebody up there loves us!

 

Christopher

[BattleFieldRelics]

Here's an example of a road rage incident:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/dorset/10218987.stm

 

I don't see anyone there calling for a review of driving licences!

[Beardo]

all i can say is thank god we have you guys fighting for us