shotgun laws bound to be tightend because of 1 man

[Browning GTS]

FINE, NOW FAST TRACK THE PAYMENTS PLAN OPTIONS AND A LOT OF US HARD UP SHOOTERS WILL JOIN

 

Don't shout Im only a bloke who is lucky enough to be able to pay by direct debit, trouble is some of these split payment things end up costing you more for the privilige. Hope they get it sorted. Maybe now there is a reason!!

[Vince Green]

Did anyone hear Alan Johnson today, that idiot has thrown his cap in the arena and as he is a reported candidate for the Labour leadership we can all guess his motives for getting involved.

[mossy835]

just another **** in the works.

[Highlander]

There are plenty of MPs (Chris Williamson & Alan Johnson among them) who are hell bent on banning shooting but those calling them ****** and nonentities would do well to remember they were voted in by people some of who might even be members on here!

 

There are now proposals to make getting rid of an unwanted MP easier...if you have one in your constituency NOW might be a good time to start campaigning!

 

It’s not just shooting we should campaign for but the right to be left alone to get on with our lives without some busybody always trying to tell us how to live!

[Christopher Graffius]

This is superb Christopher and, if there is anything I, as a member can do to help with the hard work ahead, please just ask, I'm sure I'll not be alone in offering my time to help.

 

I would offer a word of caution though, I am not sure that BASC members lobbying MPs this soon after the event is a wise move, the ensuing email bombardment from the shooting community could be misinterpreted as insensitive and a little crass. Far better for BASC to do the initial lobbying and damage limitation on our behalf and then, once the Cumbria Police report is published, open the floodgates for members to lobby directly?

 

Vipa - that's very sensible. The key point for shooters to lobby is going to be after we know the results of the police inquiry and before the parliamentary debate. The debate will shape attitudes to reform and while we're bound to have anti speakers - such as Williamson - we have to make sure they're the minority and that we get our points in through other speakers. I expect the technology for the new site will be sorted by early next week. There may be value in touching base with your MP to say how shocked you are, how sensible the political consensus is and that you're available to brief them about shooting sports in their constituency - if they wish. We want MPs to be better informed before the debate rather than after it.

 

I'm in London until Tuesday - you can guess why - so apologies if I'm unable to post until then.

 

Christopher

[the running man]

Funny how ure all up in arms now now isent it,where was u and basc wen the pistol ban was happening? Everyone on here all of a sudden wants to be pals with fellow shooters! Makes me a little mad. I am glad basc. Is talkin for us as I don't want any changes to the law,it looks likeley we may all ride it out.hopefully.

[Vipa]

Funny how ure all up in arms now now isent it,where was u and basc wen the pistol ban was happening? Everyone on here all of a sudden wants to be pals with fellow shooters! Makes me a little mad. I am glad basc. Is talkin for us as I don't want any changes to the law,it looks likeley we may all ride it out.hopefully.

 

This is not the time for name calling and in-fighting about something that happened over a decade ago!

 

Apart from anything else Dunblane was very different set of circumstances to this and the world was a very different place. Let's face it, whilst BASC try to give as broad a support to shooting in general, handgun target shooting hardly fits into the core rural activities that BASC stands for.

 

Perhaps your anger and frustration should be directed more at the NRA who were and still are the voice of target shooters in the UK...... Come to think of it..... Anyone seen or heard from them over this sad incident?

 

And before you start whingeing at my post, I was a pistol shooter and had to hand in my hanguns.

 

I haven't seen ANY other organisation who purport to represent shooters in the UK stand up and make a public statement let alone begin the immense PR & Lobbying excersize required to minimise the potential damage to our sport this incident could do.

 

If you have a beef with BASC then simple, don't join, have a free ride on the back of the members who see BASC as a true champion for field sports and shooting but PLEASE do not come on here having a go, your ramblings will at worst create a great deal of ill feeling towards you and at best for the most part, fall on deaf ears......

 

Without BASC and the work they do / are doing there would be a very real chance you could lose all shooting privilages. As I said earlier I don't see ANYONE else standing up for us right now!

 

Oh... and for the record.... If memory serves, BASC did lobby against the handgun ban, The Cullen Report recommended that handguns should not be banned but the Conservatives decided to ignore that report and bowed to media and public pressure to set the wheels in motion to take pistols out of legal ownership. Blair and the New Labour movement then hammered the final nail in the coffin and finished the job! Sometimes battles cannot be won, some of us just unfortunately end up on the losing side and have to live with it.... Now... please... get over it and let us focus on the not insignificant job at hand!!!

Edited June 5, 2010 by Vipa

[the running man]

A fair point explained well,perhaps I should reiterate,I'm a basc member and am glad they are there.during the pistol ban. Pistol clubs wrote to and tried to contact all locall clay/deer/vermin shooters from various agencys and clubs ( as I'm sure ure outfit did) for help or support ,Or even just opinions but nobody even replied,so my poorly made point from before is,that any clay/vermin/deer shooters are gonna get no help from the afore mentioned People.that's it,...oh and I agree the nra won't help unless their target rifles are under threat! And I shoot lots of target,vermin/fox and deer so am a all rounder (I like to think).so I've no beef,but others who made their pistols their sport will,and jilted people have very long memorys. Let's just wait and see,looks like we may be ok.

Edited June 5, 2010 by the running man

[Vipa]

A fair point explained well,perhaps I should reiterate,I'm a basc member and am glad they are there.during the pistol ban. Pistol clubs wrote to and tried to contact all locall clay/deer/vermin shooters from various agencys and clubs ( as I'm sure ure outfit did) for help or even just opinions but nobody even replied,so mind poorly made point from be fore is,that any clay/vermin/deer shooters are gonna get no help from the afore mentioned

People.that's it,...oh and I agree the nra won't help unless their target rifles are under threat!

 

After Hungerford I don't think anyone was really surprised that essentially 'military' weapons were taken out of legal circulation. However after Dunblane, whilst everyone expected SOMETHING to happen.. there was a great deal of complacency and most were 'quite sure' they knew what that would be! My club spent thousands installing an armoury at the club house as they, like most others, were expecting the law to be changed so that you could still own guns but had to leave them at the club. We were gob-smacked when the total ban was announced, especially when it went against the recommendations made in the report the government had commissioned in the first place. We were blind sided, no one saw it coming and unfortunately, once it had been done there was no going back.

 

This time no one will sit by and assume they know what the outcome will be. Anything could happen, speculation is almost pontless. What we must do is consolidate our position and educate the public as to the value our sport has to their community, not kick and scream like a child who has been told they are about to have their favourite toy taken away.

 

A little paradoxical, I agree but after warning against lobbying MPs too early, I decided, after reading Christophers comment that "We want MPs to be better informed before the debate rather than after it." to write to my MP anyway as I already have his email address. My email can be seen below for anyone interested:

 

To James Wharton, Conservative MP, Stockton South..

 

James

 

As you are aware I am a gun owner in your constituency and a supporter of the Conservatives.

 

The events in Cumbria have shocked and saddened the entire shooting world and our thoughts are with the families of the victims and the local community.

 

This is an horrific event which has, quite rightly, caused feelings to run high. Unfortunately, we will never know what caused Mr Bird to do what he did! It is all too easy in these situations for the media and the public to pick up on the easiest target for blame and, as expected, firearms and the rules surrounding their licensing were the obvious point of focus, it is however, impossible to legislate against instances such as these which are thankfully very, very rare and I am very glad to see, what appears to be, a very sensible consensus regarding knee jerk reactions towards firearms legislation coming from the Prime Minister and the government as a whole.

 

We need to remain mindful that the shooting fraternity at large bring a great deal of value to the community both nationally and locally, a fact that sadly, the majority of the non-shooting public are unaware of.

 

The independent PACEC report demonstrated that live quarry shooting alone puts more than £1.6 billion into the rural economy, contributes 2.7 million work days on conservation and funded the full time equivalent of 70,000 jobs. As well as this, shooting adds less tangible value to the local economy in the form of crop protection, pest and predator control as well as the money and jobs created by up and coming sporting, clay pigeon and target shooting facilities. All of these activities also need to be serviced and supported by retail outlets and manufacturing facilities which in themselves create jobs and wealth for the local community. Let us also not forget that there are an estimated 30,000 - 50,000 vehicle collisions involving deer annually in the UK. These result in 10-20 human fatalities. Deer have no natural predators in the UK and their population is rising rapidly, in some areas already reaching real ‘problem’ levels, it is therefore down to deer managers/stalkers to control the rapidly increasing size of the deer population.

 

The Home Secretary has promised a Parliamentary debate once the report of the incident is available from Cumbria Police, in preparation for this, should you wish, I am happy to make myself available to brief you about shooting sports in your constituency.

 

Whilst I agree that the current legislation should be reviewed and debated in the wake of these awful events, as David Cameron has already publicly stated, "the UK has some of the strictest gun legislation in the world," legislation that is riddled with red tape! Further tightening of gun laws will not solve anything nor prevent atrocities such as this occurring in the future. In fact, if the law was less bureaucratic, the police would have more time to spot a potential ‘rotten apple’ instead of chasing paper as they do now. This may actually be an opportunity for very sensible reform!

 

Kind regards

Paul

 

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.

If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the

individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of the Company.

Edited June 5, 2010 by Vipa
Contact details removed

[Mr_Logic]

Good letter, but recommend you remove all the phone numbers etc.

[claypop]

A fair point explained well,perhaps I should reiterate,I'm a basc member and am glad they are there.during the pistol ban. Pistol clubs wrote to and tried to contact all locall clay/deer/vermin shooters from various agencys and clubs ( as I'm sure ure outfit did) for help or support ,Or even just opinions but nobody even replied,so my poorly made point from before is,that any clay/vermin/deer shooters are gonna get no help from the afore mentioned People.that's it,...oh and I agree the nra won't help unless their target rifles are under threat! And I shoot lots of target,vermin/fox and deer so am a all rounder (I like to think).so I've no beef,but others who made their pistols their sport will,and jilted people have very long memorys. Let's just wait and see,looks like we may be ok.

 

A very good point & a prime example of the polarization of shooting in the UK. If the BASC & other shooting types bothered in 1997 to stick together then there'd now be thousands more shooters & consequently more support in general. Alas, a large percentage of pistol target shooters, being deprived of their sport, did not go over to long gun pastimes prefering instead to walk away completely - and who could blame them.

 

This is a lesson I hope will not be have to be learned again. The simple fact is the average 'Joe' in the UK is guided by scare stories in the gutter press & lumps shooters together in the same nutjob catagory.

This is why FAC & SGC need to show cross-certificate support but I can understand your anger & it helps not by saying it was over a decade ago. That suggests the world & public opinion has had a sea-change regarding

gun ownership. The fact is it has not. If anything it is worse so heed the mistakes of the past as once the law in in place I can never see it repealed.

Edited June 5, 2010 by claypop

[CROWBLIND]

Wow thats a darn good letter!!!!!

[RC45]

Vipa, you have a way with words. Any chance I can copy it to send to my MP?

 

Phil

[Vipa]

Vipa, you have a way with words. Any chance I can copy it to send to my MP?

 

Phil

 

be my guest, it could do with a few minor tweeks on re-Reading but if that fits your sentiments and what you want to say to your MP, go for it!

 

Ok, tweeked to read slightly better. If anyone wants to use it as a template for a letter to their MP please do so. I must also thank Christopher from BASC as I have solen a couple of sentences from his posts to construct my final draft!

Edited June 5, 2010 by Vipa

[Vipa]

Good letter, but recommend you remove all the phone numbers etc.

 

Nahhh.. if anyone calls I'll flog 'em a mortgage

[matty1967]

From the BBC website.....

 

'The UK has some of the toughest gun control laws in the world. If you want to own a gun, it is very difficult to do so'

 

Really?

 

How many people do you reckon apply for firearms just because they want a gun? The old classic

'I've just got my SGC/FAC could somebody help me as I've no where to shoot' or 'I already have two .22's but I want another one, what should I say on my application?'

 

The system needs tightened. Over here shotguns, air rifles, rifles etc are held on an FAC. If you don't have a good reason to have them then you don't get them.

dont be so wet

[matty1967]

Lads !!! at the moment feelings are running high. we are being bombarded with anti comments from the media all your hearing is revise the gunlaws..

then the BBC are showing on more than one occassion that lad ..mr moss who has changed his story from the 1st interview one interview he thought it was a toy then it was a sniper rifle with a massive scope..the media will feed on this

 

Ok !!! I can understand his feelings..seeing someone die in front of you is not nice...and will play on his mind..we should all try to understand this

 

as for all of us ..we all have a role to play to look after our sport..not just our Reps like BASC etc etc

 

all of us have filled out official forms and have been checked out. we now more than ever need to show the rest of the world we are worthy of our responsabilites...

I personaly think the laws and conditions are right..I can honestly say all the lads who I have shot with have shown safety to be the 1st thing on their minds

 

If there was a need to add anything to what we do to show our responsability to shooting , I would personaly add 2 things... in both cases neither would stop a situation like what has occured..nothing could..

 

One would be..It should be Law to Lock up shotgun cartridges

and the 2nd would be..there could be a Phone in and tell the police, when you are out and where your shooting with your rifle/shotgun and then phone them when you return home..this would show the police your intended movements and responsibility.. not a high price to pay for keeping our sport

 

jasp

is this really a good idea. i would be phoning them 4 times a day 5 times a week.and thats just me

[matty1967]

Prey tell what important jobs you would undertake with your "very useful tools?" I assume you are referring to assualt rifles & handguns?!!

we are all shooters why knock someonelses type

[stevethevanman]

I think there needs to be somewhere people can go and learn about guns like in the U.S...I mean come on, a .22LR, a sniper rifle ..if that is a .22LR, think of what would happen if they noticed a foxer, with something like a .243 and a massive T8?

 

I think public education is a massive problem in this, as most people put guns in one bucket and shotguns the other, having no idea the huge differances between them, when I speak to people about my airgun for lamping they talk about it as if it was an AK, with again, a range of somewhere around the 200 yard mark ..its not until I give them a little education they start to learn it is actually not very powerful at all.

 

The idea of gun lockups is also crazy, as you would simply have events like range shootings in America, or events such as Fort Bragg, where people go and get the gun legitimately, and then commit the crime, thus this solves nothing!

 

Breaking the stigma around guns would help alot I believe, and in the words of many. "guns dont kill people, people choose to kill people"

 

Steve

Edited June 5, 2010 by stevethevanman

[claypop]

And that, Nial, is exactly the kind of information we need to promote and publicise, not 'guns are useful because I can fire at bits of paper and get a kick out of it!'

 

So target shooters don't count? Another example of an 'I,m alright Jack' viewpoint.

 

Remember 1997. We stand together or fall apart. If they pick off bits of shooting you choose not to support eventually they'll come for your type - who'll then be left

you can rely on for support?

[Breastman]

So target shooters don't count? Another example of an 'I,m alright Jack' viewpoint.

 

Remember 1997. We stand together or fall apart. If they pick off bits of shooting you choose not to support eventually they'll come for your type - who'll then be left

you can rely on for support?

 

 

Unbelievably there still seem to be shooters (unfortunately) with the view that they can appease the crocodile that is the gun control lobby by feeding it their 'friends' first, in the hope that it won't come back for them later.

 

See the thread 'Nice Article in the Times' for some cracking examples

 

Mark

[wymberley]

A fair point explained well,perhaps I should reiterate,I'm a basc member and am glad they are there.during the pistol ban. Pistol clubs wrote to and tried to contact all locall clay/deer/vermin shooters from various agencys and clubs ( as I'm sure ure outfit did) for help or support ,Or even just opinions but nobody even replied,so my poorly made point from before is,that any clay/vermin/deer shooters are gonna get no help from the afore mentioned People.that's it,...oh and I agree the nra won't help unless their target rifles are under threat! And I shoot lots of target,vermin/fox and deer so am a all rounder (I like to think).so I've no beef,but others who made their pistols their sport will,and jilted people have very long memorys. Let's just wait and see,looks like we may be ok.

The approach described wasn't a total failure; there was a meeting at Exeter Cattle Market which was filled to bursting point with shooters of all disciplines with senior BASC staff who had driven straight down from Marford Mill and to a man offering whatever support they could. The meeting helped to kick into being the Sportsmans Association if memory serves me correctly. The support didn't finish when the meeting did but continued unabated, unfortunately, as we now know, to no avail.

Cheers

[the running man]

So target shooters don't count? Another example of an 'I,m alright Jack' viewpoint.

 

Remember 1997. We stand together or fall apart. If they pick off bits of shooting you choose not to support eventually they'll come for your type - who'll then be left

you can rely on for support?

Here here,I'm with you claybop,I can't wait to see some peoples faces when its their shooting disipline under threat. Two faced gun snobs.

[OCD]

It is truly sad that the media have demonised guns and gun ownership I am sure some of you,myself included can remember carrying a gun unsleved to permission and no one batted an eyelid yet now you would have swat descending on you.

One of the biggest problems is that we have hidden for too long we should be out promoting our sport I mean we have some of the worlds most successful shooters in the uk yet who knows that mick gault is the most successful common wealth medal winner ever 15 medals all for shooting.

[RC45]

be my guest, it could do with a few minor tweeks on re-Reading but if that fits your sentiments and what you want to say to your MP, go for it!

 

Ok, tweeked to read slightly better. If anyone wants to use it as a template for a letter to their MP please do so. I must also thank Christopher from BASC as I have solen a couple of sentences from his posts to construct my final draft!

 

Many thanks. Maybe you should help BASC, they could do with some help under these difficult times.

 

Phil