Guest topshot_2k Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 (edited) Labour MP Chris Williamson said the government should not "rule out the possibility of the complete prohibition of private ownership of firearms as the best way of preventing future atrocities like this". ****. Edited June 3, 2010 by topshot_2k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soreshoulder Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 Labour MP Chris Williamson said the government should not "rule out the possibility of the complete prohibition of private ownership of firearms as the best way of preventing future atrocities like this". ****. if that even happens which i doubt it would, well not in the near future anyway, i would be leaving GB and not looking back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest topshot_2k Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 if that even happens which i doubt it would, well not in the near future anyway, i would be leaving GB and not looking back me too, ticket to america please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleFieldRelics Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 Labour MP Chris Williamson said the government should not "rule out the possibility of the complete prohibition of private ownership of firearms as the best way of preventing future atrocities like this". ****. The last time anything like that happened was in Germany 1937. One of the Nazi parties policies. They enforced it and we all know why... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 me too, ticket to america please. If you want to go there and you have a UK passport. Your onto nothing without £250,000 cash to invest in a none returnable (quick profit / wage) business. You also need cash for a house, no debt (at all) and pass many tests, then you get in after a number of years. As an alternative get a Bulgarian, Polish or Ukrainian passport and your straight in with very little checks. FACT - UK passports are one of the hardest passports in the world to get a green card in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasper3 Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 Lads !!! at the moment feelings are running high. we are being bombarded with anti comments from the media all your hearing is revise the gunlaws.. then the BBC are showing on more than one occassion that lad ..mr moss who has changed his story from the 1st interview one interview he thought it was a toy then it was a sniper rifle with a massive scope..the media will feed on this Ok !!! I can understand his feelings..seeing someone die in front of you is not nice...and will play on his mind..we should all try to understand this as for all of us ..we all have a role to play to look after our sport..not just our Reps like BASC etc etc all of us have filled out official forms and have been checked out. we now more than ever need to show the rest of the world we are worthy of our responsabilites... I personaly think the laws and conditions are right..I can honestly say all the lads who I have shot with have shown safety to be the 1st thing on their minds If there was a need to add anything to what we do to show our responsability to shooting , I would personaly add 2 things... in both cases neither would stop a situation like what has occured..nothing could.. One would be..It should be Law to Lock up shotgun cartridges and the 2nd would be..there could be a Phone in and tell the police, when you are out and where your shooting with your rifle/shotgun and then phone them when you return home..this would show the police your intended movements and responsibility.. not a high price to pay for keeping our sport jasp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 Locking up cartridges and phoning the police before you go shooting would have done nothing to prevent this tragedy from occuring. FM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest topshot_2k Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 (edited) One would be..It should be Law to Lock up shotgun cartridgesand the 2nd would be..there could be a Phone in and tell the police, when you are out and where your shooting with your rifle/shotgun and then phone them when you return home..this would show the police your intended movements and responsibility.. not a high price to pay for keeping our sport jasp 1. No practical or needed as what will it achieve? 2. Too much admin and not workable at all. Our system is fine as it is. As said by the PM, no amoung of legislation can ever stop this happening again Edited June 3, 2010 by topshot_2k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddan Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 One would be..It should be Law to Lock up shotgun cartridgesand the 2nd would be..there could be a Phone in and tell the police, when you are out and where your shooting with your rifle/shotgun and then phone them when you return home..this would show the police your intended movements and responsibility.. not a high price to pay for keeping our sport jasp Point 1 is great if you hold 25 cartridges only, what with Pigeon shooting, clay and wildfowling any quanity of cartridges would be hard to lock up. Point 2 I can't see how this would work, its not like you can give an address where you will be and what if you decide to move somewhere else do you call again? Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 if you have to tell them when you got shooting and when you come back,the phones would not stop ringing, and they have more to do then right down where you are going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 as it's been mentioned, if they do ban semi auto shotguns and 22lrs, how would they go about compensating the owners of such guns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 There is nothing that can be done to the licensing system which will prevent someone from turning insane in an instant and doing something like this. There is nothing that can be done to the road laws that would stop an insane trucker from ploughing through a busy city centre killing more people. BUT I don't think we should leave things as they are. The Firearms System needs to be overhauled anyway - centralised licensing system, better knowledge of the whereabouts of guns (backlogs are actually a risk!). The only thing I can see that would actually do anything is a regular psychiatric exam by an independent doctor - i.e. not your GP. This could only be paid for by either (a) shooters or ( centralising the licensing system to achieve greater efficiency. That would help. Would it stop this? Nope, but it could help. Personally, I would like to see them admit that banning handguns and automatic rifles was daft, license the person not the gun, check the person out often and then reinstate the very useful tools we lost before. But sadly I see flying pigs are needed here... I don't think people with semi auto .22s are going to be sleeping well - that £800 pimped up Ruger 10/22 is going to be on a hitlist when someone notices how pointable they are with a few 50-shot magazines. I'm guessing it's a 10/22 or similar because of the numbers of people involved - you couldn't do that with a CZ 452! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasper3 Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 FM ..I did say it would not stop a situation like what has occured..nothing will I have bought a military ammo box.£18 from a army surplus store.. it holds 800 carts.... (all FAC rounds have to be under lock and key) what I am saying is...... If there has to be a change in the law, due to what has happened , would it not be better to have something like this in place than loose the right to shoot.. Point 2 ..Yes when I go to sea in my kayak for a bit of fishing..i call the coastguard up with a paddle plan... I am registered under the CG66 they know who i am and where i am.... If that changes..I inform them the price of the call would be less than 1 cartridge or shell lets take the situation a while back when those pigeon shooters were arrested... if a scheme was in place and they could have just called up to say....ie This is .jasper 3 i am shooting on permission A (after a few Pigeons) I will call you when ive finished.. that would have stopped the Armed responsed unit arriving after being called out by joe public..the police could have given you a call to make sure it was you or your group like all of you..i really don't want change..... but!!!! it would be better to have some simple changes than to loose our sport because of media Hype Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddan Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 The only thing I can see that would actually do anything is a regular psychiatric exam by an independent doctor - i.e. not your GP. This could only be paid for by either (a) shooters or ( centralising the licensing system to achieve greater efficiency. When the police wrote to my doctor to get his opinion on my mental health they tried to put the decision on my GP, however, all they got back was a generic letter, it is the police authorities job to decide fitness to own not the GPs or doctor. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 Personally, I would like to see them admit that banning handguns and automatic rifles was daft, license the person not the gun, check the person out often and then reinstate the very useful tools we lost before. But sadly I see flying pigs are needed here... Prey tell what important jobs you would undertake with your "very useful tools?" I assume you are referring to assualt rifles & handguns?!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 If it isn't going to stop the situation and isn't related to the awful events that have just happened, why bother implementing it? The only difference is said psycho. has to just unlock his cartridges before using them, something that he would have had to do with his guns and the .22 rifle ammunition he used anyway. There are plenty of accounts on here of people who have phoned the police control room to say they are going out shooting and still had a visit from the boys in blue. Lets face it, in the wake of recent events the police aren't going to ignore a phonecall about firearms because joe bloggs phoned in earlier to say they were going to be shooting in the area. If anything it sounds like a wonderful tactic for delaying a police response to an incident. FM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ550Kevlar Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 When the police wrote to my doctor to get his opinion on my mental health they tried to put the decision on my GP, however, all they got back was a generic letter, it is the police authorities job to decide fitness to own not the GPs or doctor. Dan Generally for run of the mill applications they just see there was nothing recorded by the doctor end of story the Firearms department manager signs the application off, but for applications which turn up stress etc the usual path for the application is straight over to the FMO for review and comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toka_shigazu Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 This is a terrible thing to happen and our thoughts should be with the familes involded with this. I hope that there is no knee jerk reaction by the goverment to impose stupid restriction that won't stop anyone determinded to do anything. As its been said this man decided to use his sg he could have just a easy took a house hold object like a bread knife. if anyone is that determinded to do something only intervension will stop it!!! two things should cleared up though. what did the police not stop him after the first incident? there was 3 hour start to finish..... but there was no mention of armed responce.... why not! maybe the first few incident could not have been stopped but with moden policeing, helecopters ( that the send up for speeding motorists) i would have hope this could have come to a end sooner. The news report said the car drove past police offices after the taxi driver was shot! And on the ITN report they kept going on about the amount of ammo used, making out like the amount of ammo he had was the cause.... without worring too much how many of us buy just a box or two!!! unfortunatly all we can hope is for no silly reaction by the goverment think you will probably find that there were a lot of genuine calls in about it but some may have waited in a que to be answered and others may have waited until they spoke to someone else before making the decision to ring so the information coming in may be out by as much as 20 minutes...this would cause an absolute nightmare for officers at the communications room as one minute they could be being told he is at one location, then next he could be miles away.... best to wait and see now what comes out of any invsetigation before even thinking of aportioning a criticism like i say just terrible for those involved... atb It just seems with today's GPS technology any threat can be located quickly and tracked (ie person moving with gun) so it can be resolved by an Armed Response Unit. GPs no...but phone cell siting is an option, trouble is it would have taken even longer to get his mobile number [if he had one] and then get the authorisation needed... having read the 'have your say' item the main thing that stood out is how unaware the public are as to what the laws are regarding firearms of any kind and their use and ownership. other than a united voice by organisations by BASC to counter what the media is already spinning, i think that all/any shooters can do their bit by trying to get into schools, primary and secondary to at least try to educate the childern with regards to firarms law and use. i think it is something that we shy away from which has the effect that the public have grown up with their own ideas of what is/isnt allowed or already happening. i do visit schools as part of my work remit and will bring this up with my local schools. knowing the staff, as long as it is an informative lesson [with no shock, horror, gore], and it ticks some of their boxes like english/discussion/reasoned argument etc, then they will allow it. this morning the main sense of action seemed to be store the ammo seperately...i can see a point to that as it may stop the instant decision/snapping whereby someone may decide to act in this manner. that said from what i have now heard this may have been a bit more planned than originally thought in which case it wouldnt have stopped a similar incident. also the practicalities of storing ammo at a police station or gun club puts a lot of the onus on any future incidents on them...can they police it/manage it in that people may need access to their ammo at any time of night/day and their nearest open facility may be 30 miles away and how will that play into it, ontop of the fact that once they have the ammo something might happen for that person to snap. again there was a large amount of public misconception, other than the normal killing/guns are a no no... yes they might tighten the criteria to possess a shotgun/rifle...and look at minor previous convictions in order to refuse a licence, i might be way off the mark but i would think a lot of responsible/upstanding members of the public and even MP's who like to shoot may also have previous drink drive offences or other similar convictions that at the moment doesnt stop their use or ownership but it may in the future if this is changed...i wonder how much backing it would get from those who may end up losing out because of it. we will have to wait and see in the long run.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddan Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 (edited) lets take the situation a while back when those pigeon shooters were arrested... if a scheme was in place and they could have just called up to say....ieThis is .jasper 3 i am shooting on permission A (after a few Pigeons) I will call you when ive finished.. that would have stopped the Armed responsed unit arriving after being called out by joe public..the police could have given you a call to make sure it was you or your group I don't want to seem negative but what is to stop a nutter ringing up and saying "Yes I am shooting here don't worry about coming out"? Armed response would have to attend every report regardless of pigeon shooters calling in. Back to point one, if you clay shoot say weekly like many of use do, 800 cartridges doesn't go far most people I know buy by the 1000. I don't disagree that locking up is sensible, I for one make sure they are out of reach and inaccessable because I have young kids but it shouldn't be law. Mainly because once there is a law it then needs to say how they are locked up, who has access, what grade steel your container is made from, is it fixed down etc. Dan Edited June 4, 2010 by reddan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasus bridge Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 What happens if you lose your original permission for the rifle? How many would hand in the rifle because they have no further use for it? fair enough - but that was not your original statment was it? you suggested that we see regular posts from people who have just got a fac - not those who have been through the process (ie proved they had land to shoot on) . the process is already tight enough - it will be interesting to see if the process has not been followed in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddan Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 Generally for run of the mill applications they just see there was nothing recorded by the doctor end of story the Firearms department manager signs the application off, but for applications which turn up stress etc the usual path for the application is straight over to the FMO for review and comment. I think there could be a case for a general medical record check for every application. I know that if you don't tick the box for depression they don't check. In my case I had been signed off for work for a couple of weeks following a family loss, it wasn't really depression but thats what they put on my doctors note for work so I declared it. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 Having watch it for quiet number of years (normally all I watch on TV) has Sky News changed from a news breaker to 'The Sunday Sport'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 I think there could be a case for a general medical record check for every application. I know that if you don't tick the box for depression they don't check. In my case I had been signed off for work for a couple of weeks following a family loss, it wasn't really depression but thats what they put on my doctors note for work so I declared it. Dan between 8-12% of the UK population suffer from some form od depression in any one year. The kind of mental state seen in this case would not be identifiable from past depression or other medical information and has been said so many times 'it is impossible to legislate to avoid instances like this.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the running man Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/polit...ker-437853.html cameron the stalker,has said we already have one of the toughest gunlaws in the world,the top firearms police guy in charge of the licensing side said we have a good system,we cannot legislate against lunacy. we now have to wait,no end of rowin amongst ourselves will give the story-twist media just wat they want,so everyone lets calm it down.................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 Prey tell what important jobs you would undertake with your "very useful tools?" I assume you are referring to assualt rifles & handguns?!! And what important jobs do YOU and the vast majority of shooters do with your "tools"? :o I think you'll find the overwhelming majority of people shoot purely for fun, not because it is an essential job that needs doing, not because they're competing at national/international level, for no other reason that it is fun for them to shoot. Yes thats right i'm not afraid to admit i get a kick out of shooting :o I'm sorry if this sounds like i'm having a go but this frankly 'anti' view point of certain types of firearms is what destroyed a co-ordinated defence of handgun shooting 13 years ago. :o Apart from it just being FUN (theres that dirty word again) shooting as many different types of guns as possible, there were informal, club, county, national and international competitions held specifically using self-loading full-bore rifles and handguns. Just look at the IPSC website for what people in this country used to do, and what hundreds of thousands of people still do all around the world. You might not like or have any knowledge of handgun/self-loading rifles but please don't try to deride someone that does. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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