The ultimate foxing calibre

[JackReady]

If you can get one to sit at 600m then be my guest, but as for realistic ability, a .223 if dropped on target will kill up to fox size, which is about the biggest varmint we have in the U.K.

 

So will a paving slab. If you can throw it that far. Of have enough elevation to crank a .223 out that far. Just for today lets agree the .223 isn't in contention as its generally accepted as being out of puff at 250m . What would your choice be with out it in the frame from the 6mm calibres mention thus far.

[rabbiter]

.220 swift all day long for me mate,the rounds are very expensive,but i had the luxury of

having a friend who reloaded mine for me,fantastic calibre for fox,not had any experience

with 6mm calibres,just my opinion though,im sure what ever you choose will fit the bill...

 

DAZ

[stevethevanman]

So will a paving slab. If you can throw it that far. Of have enough elevation to crank a .223 out that far. Just for today lets agree the .223 isn't in contention as its generally accepted as being out of puff at 250m . What would your choice be with out it in the frame from the 6mm calibres mention thus far.

 

<<thats just with a savage factory heavy barrel...wait to see the group he shoots!!

 

Video Proof 2 (Clicky)

 

As we see from these TWO videos, a .223 is clearly subsonic and completely useless beyond 250m?..out of puff? ..these guys must be aiming above, as dialing up at this range is clearly beyond possible?

 

Steve

Edited June 6, 2010 by stevethevanman

[SSS]

.25-06 shooting 75 or 85 grain pills?

[stevethevanman]

Steve I think you miss the point and you assume that because you don't want to shoot long range then no one should I live and work on a 4 square mile estate with steep valleys no roads or public paths I have the means financially to own custom rifles,the ability to use them and I am motivated by chasing small groups as far as I can all of this requires looking much further than an off the shelf rifle in .223 or even messing with a .308.

Why not add something to the debate about which 6mm is best rather than analyzing why any one would want such a gun.

 

No doubt its possible, but as for its setting to the ULTIMATE round??..I would have to doubt a 6mmBR, as its a cuastom job, a high end factory rifle would be the ticket but custom is the way to go

 

Steve

[Harnser]

Before anybody mentions shooting game or any thing at 1000 yards they should go to bizley and have a look at the NRA 1000 yard target and then imagine a fox or the so called varmint sitting on the bank . Lock and load and spray and pray .

 

Harnser .

Edited June 6, 2010 by Harnser

[JackReady]

.220 swift all day long for me mate,the rounds are very expensive,but i had the luxury of

having a friend who reloaded mine for me,fantastic calibre for fox,not had any experience

with 6mm calibres,just my opinion though,im sure what ever you choose will fit the bill...

 

I have to admit it was a contender for a very long time.

[stevethevanman]

Before anybody mentions shooting game or any thing at 1000 yards they should go to bizley and have a look at the NRA 1000 yard target and then imagine a fox or the so called varmint sitting on the bank . Lock and load and spray and pray .

 

Harnser .

 

Quite literally

 

I believe the NRA record for 600yd stood at something like 0.6"?..set with a 6mmBR?

 

Steve

[Colster]

For a good all-rounder, what about .204Ruger. Faster and flatter than 220Swift, needs a longish barrel though I spose

Edited June 7, 2010 by Colster

[Lez325]

I have been looking for the ultimate foxing calibre for a while now, and have always felt the .22-250 fitted the bill pretty adequately. far better than the .223 and way better than the .222. The only thing that came close was the 220swift.

 

But I have now started giving serious consideration to the 6mm's. Namely the 6mm PPC 6mmBR and 6mm Dasher. Their in built accuracy advantages over the .243 appeals to me.

 

I know a few guys with 6mmPPC's and 6mmDashers that use them exclusively for sub 600m BR. Anyone given them a go as a varmint rifle?

 

 

As a 222 shooter can you explain to me why this calibre is inferior to the 22.250 and 223 ??

 

Ive shot dozens of Foxes with the 222 - they never complained and they were just as dead as if shot with 22.250

 

Les

[OCD]

There is nothing at all wrong with the .222 les it is all in the application I have a tooley built .222 and it is a fabulous rifle to shoot and will shoot into the .1s on a good day.

 

The current record for 1000 yard shooting is with a 6mmbr 4.2" 10 shot group http://www.6mmbr.com/page/page/1309618.htm

[Browning]

Trying to get back on track for you Jack.....

 

I shoot 6mmBR with 75gn VMax as my 'Go To' foxing rig, pushing 3450fps and very accurate, and shoot in excess of 150 foxes a year with it.

 

Lapua brass, BR4 primers, N133 powder.

 

Under lamping conditions you are good out to 300 yards, under daylight conditions 600 yard corvids are achievable when you've put in the practice.

 

If you don't homeload then forget it, as the only decent ammo is target stuff (Norma do good quality 105gn).

 

Personally I prefer the 6mm over .224 as you get to use a heavier bullet that will buck the wind better. (I have owned and shot .223, .22-250 and .243 so have experience of all).

 

Off the shelf rifles in 6mmBR are limited, so you are probably looking at a custom/semi-custom rig. Mine is built on a Sako A2 action.

 

If you want any more info feel free to PM me.

 

Good luck with your choice.

[casts_by_fly]

For the intended application, you're looking for one of two things:

 

(1) The longest MPBR with very good ballistics beyond

 

or

 

(2) The best possible ballistics at longer range with a very good MPBR.

 

Let's assume you want a 300+ MPBR for either case, and that a fox's vitals are 8" diameter, which means a 6" diameter MPBR calc plus another 1" either way for grouping ability (0.6 MOA at 300). We'll also assume you want 250 ft-lb at the target or more.

 

 

In the first case you're maximizing MPBR first. That means you really want 325-350 yards on fur. To get that you need 3500 fps and a bullet that doesn't have a junk BC. A 105 A max at 3500 would do it. A 75 gr Amax would also. A 55 gr V-max wouldn't (MPBR 313). Both of the heavier ones would also do well long beyond 300 with their big BC's. The question is, can you push either one to 3500? I don't think so, but I could be wrong. Possibly a big 6 with a 30+" barrel might, but I seriously doubt it. Realistically, you'll never have a 350 yard MPBR on a gun that you're going to take further downrange.

 

So you're left with option 2. Optimize for >300 and get as much MPBR as you can out of it. In that case, the 105 Amax would be to the top of my list. If you push it to 3200 you'll still get 315 yards MPBR, and still at 600 you're only dropping 10 MOA. At 1K you're dropping 24 MOA and still supersonic. The tradeoff for the higher MPBR is a little more wind drift (compared to a 6.5 140-ish). So you get to take your pick of which is more important- wind drift at longer range, or more MPBR in close?

 

For cartridges to do it? I'd look 243/243AI or 6mm Rem. I don't think you'll get any more real velocity out of anything bigger and it is a lot more work for forming/sourcing.

 

Thanks,

Rick

[JackReady]

Trying to get back on track for you Jack.....

 

I shoot 6mmBR with 75gn VMax as my 'Go To' foxing rig, pushing 3450fps and very accurate, and shoot in excess of 150 foxes a year with it.

 

Lapua brass, BR4 primers, N133 powder.

 

Under lamping conditions you are good out to 300 yards, under daylight conditions 600 yard corvids are achievable when you've put in the practice.

 

If you don't homeload then forget it, as the only decent ammo is target stuff (Norma do good quality 105gn).

 

Personally I prefer the 6mm over .224 as you get to use a heavier bullet that will buck the wind better. (I have owned and shot .223, .22-250 and .243 so have experience of all).

 

Off the shelf rifles in 6mmBR are limited, so you are probably looking at a custom/semi-custom rig. Mine is built on a Sako A2 action.

 

If you want any more info feel free to PM me.

 

Good luck with your choice.

 

Thanks Browning on a number of counts. OCD & CBF like wise

 

Go to read the opinions of guys who know.

 

It will be built on one of the new Rem700 clones that are now starting to come onto the market. Hopefully that will help keep some of the costs down given the wealth of after market component products that are available.

Edited June 7, 2010 by JackReady

[henry d]

Reading between the lines, it appears to me that the "BIG" thing is the distance of the shot/skill of the person shooting and nothing to do with field craft and if that is the case, why not stick to paper punching or apply to the army and become a sniper in Afghanistan ?

 

....or is it a fishing thing ?

[JackReady]

The current record for 1000 yard shooting is with a 6mmbr 4.2" 10 shot group http://www.6mmbr.com/page/page/1309618.htm

 

I found this to be an interesting observation.

P.S. Shoot the barrels dirty; they appear to be more accurate around 30-50 rounds fired." -- Kyle Brown

[jamie g]

save your money keep the 22/250 you have. if you want to shot some long range varmins why not get your 22/250 rebarreled with a faster twist so you can shoot 75 grain bullets.

 

seen alot of br rifles on different forums lately and i agree the accuracy is stunning. dont forget most are single shot. well this isnt a problem for most. others like a quick back up shot. you could get a 6br to feed if you got a sako action and a 6 ppc mag. they say its because the cases are small and a big bullet head makes the bullet front heavy thats why its harder to get them to feed from a mag. guess it depends on what range you would like to shoot at.

 

they say the 6ppc is the king out to 300 yards. over that the 6 br takes over due to better choice of bullets ullet weight on offer.

 

if your shooting say 300 yards at foxes under lamp max your 22/250 is more then good enough. over that the 6 br is going to be better due to better accuracy and bullet choice. i

 

mo a standard 243 is very good. cracking choice of bullets more power then the br. and still very accurate. not as accurate as br but your not aiming at flys. have a look at sir slots alots vids on youtube. 243 with 87 grain vmax. superb set up.

[OCD]

I found this to be an interesting observation.

 

 

Yeah I found that strange too I have never let any of my rifles run uncleaned for that many rounds apart from my .22lr when the wind settles I might give it a go through the .222 I darn't try it on my others as they foul very quickly

[pavman]

IMHO the ultimate tool for any job differs from person to person location and circumstance what may suit one set up wont another! I would struggle to better my .243 Fox set up for the area I shoot, small fields and marsh the biggest field being just 55 acres, the Hornady 58 Grain V Max 3750 FPS is a real stinger and it will reach out and touch at distance if required…….

[OCD]

An open invite was put up on the web for the diggle egg shoot last week for any wannabe long range varminters to come and have a go, not so much at the egg as the prairie dog target at 100,300 and 500 yards, no sighters, no spotters, just 3 shots per distance for score and for group, equipment was unlimited for those that wanted. It certainly highlights to the wanabee it is no game as not many even hit the prairie dog at 300 or 500 and only two people shot 3 clean headshots at 100.

 

 

Les Holgate did manage a 1.452" inch group at 500 yards though

http://precisionrifle.webs.com/competitionsresults.html

[OCD]

That must be last year's result, Les hit an egg again this year but I shot a 0.9" at 500 and lost out to an F-class boy with a 0.6"

 

 

Nice shooting mate .9 would make most very very happy, it is a shame that after I posted the article comparing calibers the thread degenerated into a debate about shooting longrange vermin and I apologies to jackready for that.

[JackReady]

it is a shame that after I posted the article comparing calibers the thread degenerated into a debate about shooting longrange vermin and I apologies to jackready for that.

 

No worries mate. I'm sure what was posted up by them that knows was and is of interest to those that can understand. Those that choose to remain in the wings and not post their views due to the preponderance of the "I shoot everything under 250m with my all round "it will kill any man or beast" .223 " crowd that seem to inhabit these threads, I also certain the reading and nonposting members will appreciate the effort, and the knowledge and skill that comes with it.

 

All we can hope is the doubters and detractors learn enough to be able to think outside of their constricted boxes.

[JackReady]

I'll bet that out there, there is a man that shoots more foxes than we ever dream of every year with a 223 or the like and we never hear of it as he has the land and incentive to be out there doing it, when we are home on t'interent. :-)

 

I here what you're saying fister.

 

1 vixen and 1 cub to the .22-250 tonight and 3 cubs to the terrier. He is very efficient .

[Mr_Logic]

No worries mate. I'm sure what was posted up by them that knows was and is of interest to those that can understand. Those that choose to remain in the wings and not post their views due to the preponderance of the "I shoot everything under 250m with my all round "it will kill any man or beast" .223 " crowd that seem to inhabit these threads, I also certain the reading and nonposting members will appreciate the effort, and the knowledge and skill that comes with it.

 

All we can hope is the doubters and detractors learn enough to be able to think outside of their constricted boxes.

Go on then, I'll bite.

 

Your thread is about the longest ranged varmint calibre really. One of the 6mm calibres is clearly the right choice for this - far better than a 22-250 or even 220 Swift. The 243 is not the most accurate calibre in the world - it's not bad at all but I will happily admit there are better. Can't be ***** with them though - far too much hassle.

 

If I want long range fox then I'll shoot my 243 - 4000fps 55gr Nosler with BC of .276. 22 CFs can't come close to that performance.

 

To me though, ultimate <> longest ranged. Like I said before - if I want to shoot a fox in a town, then a 6mm or 22-250 or whatever is not the tool for the job. Then the Ultimate foxing calibre is a silenced 22 LR...

[JackReady]

. Like I said before - if I want to shoot a fox in a town, then a 6mm or 22-250 or whatever is not the tool for the job. Then the Ultimate foxing calibre is a silenced 22 LR...

 

No matter how hard you try. Some people just don't get it, do they? Perhaps there should be a wekly prize for the most obtuse post in a thread.