Devon Fox Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 (edited) Hi All. Tonight me & a pal went out for a spot of foxing, covered the first farm and we came across a couple of foxes but nothing that offered a safe shot sadly, unloaded the gun and mag and moved on to the next field which is owned by a chicken farmer, the gate is just off the road and has a padlock, the type which have to put a number code into - so we had just unlocked the gate and just about to drive in and a police car pulls up behind with his blues on So they jump out and take quite an aggresive attitude to us, away from the car etc and then the probing began, one copper was a youngster and he nearly wet himself with joy when he saw the 243 in the back, you could tell he thought he was in for a major bust!!, the funny thing is my mate had transported mollases during the day - looked alot like blood on his wood dog box, my pal stuck his finger in it and said taste it if you want Now my license is in for renewal (typical) and as my pal was driving i didnt have my license on me (a copy is always in my glove box), the plod started ranting on that if the license has expired i shouldnt be out with the gun :( i politely reffered him to my FLO who i had asked and cleared it with! He then said he will be reporting me for not carrying my license? yeah right! Why these 2 numpties were so aggresive god only knows, we complied, told them the gun was in the back - kept away from the car/gun while we were talking and we posed no threat and were nothing but polite! Just to put my mind at ease - it is not a legal requirement to carry your license is it?, just good practice. Anyroads, it shakes you up a bit when they get heavy - I will never forget my license again that much is for sure!!! Edited June 24, 2010 by Hot-Shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 Fear not, there is no legal requirement to carry your licence! Why would FEO's recommend you stock up on ammo before you sent it off to them for a variation? It just makes these things simpler, even just as a handy piece of photo ID that conforms who you are and that you are entitled to have said guns in your possession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSS Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 Its not a legal requirment, but thepolice see it like this, if you can't prove the guns are legal, they are not until proven otherwise. I don't carry mine all the time, I'm too worried about losing it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Fox Posted June 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 Cheers Apache - I know it really - just the doubts creep in when you have been grilled! - man they were tough on us, really shirty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Fox Posted June 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 Cheers sss, I can understand that - its just the attitude that stinks, I am the sort of guy who is nothing but polite and they still treat you like a criminal - I couldnt have done anymore to help them - despite them trying to press are buttons! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 Its not a legal requirment, but thepolice see it like this, if you can't prove the guns are legal, they are not until proven otherwise.I don't carry mine all the time, I'm too worried about losing it! They should be able to ring in the serial number to prove that the gun belongs to you and then provided you have some other form of ID to prove who you are I can't see the problem. I personally never carry my FAC as I am scared of losing it also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 (edited) Why these 2 numpties were so aggresive god only knows, we complied, told them the gun was in the back - kept away from the car/gun while we were talking and we posed no threat and were nothing but polite! If that were me I'd have a letter into the CC about them, whether it rocked the boat or not, Edited June 25, 2010 by Bazooka Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 I dunno. I do get the feeling that regardless of the rights and wrongs, these "incidents" would be that much more straightforward / shorter if people just had the licenses on them (or good and recent copies). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the running man Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 If that were me I'd have a letter into the CC about them, whether it rocked the boat or not, I agree with joe on this one,a reprimand for the officers behaviour would hopefully stop that kind of non-impartial attitude towards you two guys who were well within the law. Its a shame that sort of attitude goes on,I'm sure if they stopped two black guys they would be very pc for fear of being called racist. There use to be an flo in bristol south who used to tell everyone he went to 'people shouldent have guns' and he was a nightmare. He got moved on after 3 years thank god! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the running man Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 P.s. I also carry my cert and I'd and land permission on me just in case.I keep it in a map case inside a plastic bag,it takes up pocket space but its peace of mind....well done for keeping cool under duress it gives us the moral highground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 Yep me too, make a complaint, there is no reason whatsoever for police to be rude or aggressive unless you deserve it. Find out who the local commander is and write or e-mail him/her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 I'm afraid that I'd have had to ask the copper why he was being such a numpty about the carrying of the FAC when he didn't even understand what a variation was. I fully appreciate that they can't know everything but if there's a subject you're unsure of and come across someone in the know then surely a more "tread lightly" approach would be suitable? Laying down the law to someone who knew more about it than they did was just silly IMO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonD Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 Doesn't sound like they knew what they were on about. As for carrying licence\ticket etc in an ideal world we all would but it seems that most coppers don't an idea of the basics of SGC\FAC licencing etc. They may well have done so already but mabe the BASC could look into a small fact card to issue to police forces so they could give to officers to place in their notebook etc as a quick reference guide rather than acting like idiots due to lack of knowledge. Jon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 I dunno. I do get the feeling that regardless of the rights and wrongs, these "incidents" would be that much more straightforward / shorter if people just had the licenses on them (or good and recent copies). That would certainly seem to be the simple solution. I have mine with me every time i go out, even when wildfowling it's in a waterproof compartment in my bag. Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of carrying it, i just can't be bothered with the hassle if i get stopped. It just seems so much easier to produce my certificate and prove my identity and show that all is legal and above board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the running man Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 Doesn't sound like they knew what they were on about. As for carrying licence\ticket etc in an ideal world we all would but it seems that most coppers don't an idea of the basics of SGC\FAC licencing etc. They may well have done so already but mabe the BASC could look into a small fact card to issue to police forces so they could give to officers to place in their notebook etc as a quick reference guide rather than acting like idiots due to lack of knowledge. Jon. a little fact card is a really good idea,I fear they won't carry it as basc is not the police.it would be like the rac issueing fact cards to traffic cops....comes down to training,an inner city cop will know wat drug is and know the hotspots and no go areas. Likewise a rural officer should know about tractor/theft illegal coursing and the basics of shooting law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 I had a similar incident a year or so back when a "Tree Hugger" tried causing trouble by reporting me for using my shotgun on a public road (A total lie I must add). A police car came screaming up to the farm (Which I saw coming so quickly made my way back to the farm) and the two yound plods just didn't have a clue. I tried explaining that I hadn't even been there long enough to get near to the road they were talking about (Which the farmer confirmed as I had only been there 10 minutes of so, 5 of which were spent talking to the farmer) yet they still insisted that I should not have fired my shotgun from the road. The best of the lot came when I suggested that they check my SGC to make sure that the shotgun I had was registered to me and to look at the gun to see that it had in fact not even been fired. They didn't know where on the gun to look for the serial number nor did they have a clue about how to check the barrels to see that it hadn't beed fired simply by looking down the inside of the barrels! It's usually the younger plods that are out to try to make a name for themselves that "come it" with their "bolshy, know it all attitudes" and very little "people skills" when in fact they know very little about what they are talking about, which is a shame because most or them are OK sort of chaps who do a very good and sometimes difficult job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 whichever way they went they still didn't either arrest you or seize guns so all good in the end. Coppers are fairly hyped up when they react and stop people with guns as they don't get taught anything about legal shooting. Fine if you get a clued up one but less so if you don't, best reason for not carrying your ticket is now they make them from something like toilet paper they look very tatty very fast if you take them about. I keep mine in the glove box so its never that far away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 There is an ongoing need to keep and build bridges between the lawful shooting community and the police; so I don't quite understand why people seem to want to court trouble with the plod or score points off them on who knows what about firearms rules and regs. Regardless of what the law says, most problems can be resolved with the production of the SGC/FAC. I am realistic enough that if plod were called to my permission then the chances are I would know more about firearms law than the police officer in attendance; so knowing that I really ought to cater for it i.e. have my ticket ready to show it's all legit. Again, I also recognise that the police officer in attendance is likely (as a matter of self preservation) to start from the assumption that we are poaching, and then take the situation from there. A compliant and disarming approach works wonders in all manner of situations. I don't see how a snotty letter or complaint would help anything or anyone. A short but polite letter may. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 I've never had any trouble from the police in this regard, hopefully never will. but what i'll never do is make trouble with them, it's just not worth it, after all, getting all high and mighty with them will just probably end up with me spending a night in the cells and my licences revoked. Now who wants that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 If you have firearms in your possession and cannot produce a relevant certificate to prove who you are and that you are legallyt entitled to have the firearms with you then the police are quite within their rights to confiscate the firearms until you can prove otherwise. For this reason, and for reasons of simplicity, my certs are just part of my shooting kit that are kept well protected from the elements and beside my gun or guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the running man Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 I've never had any trouble from the police in this regard, hopefully never will. but what i'll never do is make trouble with them, it's just not worth it, after all, getting all high and mighty with them will just probably end up with me spending a night in the cells and my licences revoked. Now who wants that? u certainly should not go off on one,but after being nothing but polite to the officers,and theve been satisfied all is well,if you're unhappy by all means send in a complaint but word it politely. I appreciate they are approaching armed people and may be wary,but rural officers should and ought to know a little about shooting. Then again as gram says is it worth it? Wat if they put you're letter up on their dartboard along with you're mugshot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonD Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 If i'm going clay shooting I always have it with me. If i'm going out in the field etc I have a colour photocopy of the first page hand and had then stamped with "Certified true copy" signed and details of a solicitor, don't know how much it would cost normally as my mum did mine as she works there. Jon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 If i'm going out in the field etc I have a colour photocopy of the first page hand and had then stamped with "Certified true copy" signed and details of a solicitor. Top idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 quite easy to forge though so not sure how much notice they would take of it. A copy simply gives them your mugshot and address details etc which can all be checked up on. Its very rare to happen I know I've never in 18 years had to produce mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 25, 2010 Report Share Posted June 25, 2010 I don't understand the issue... I know SGC/FACs arent the best design and I'm hopeful that with the introduction of the new firearms database and the forthcoming review of firearm licensing we may get plastic credit card sized licenses with either our firearms detais stored on a chip on the card or a system where plod can radio it in and the s/ns be made availble that way to check... In the meantime... just take it with you, I can understand peoples reluctance due to loss etc.. but in reality, losing an SGC/FAC whilst not great, shouldn't create any more problems than losing a driving license or passport... these things happen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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